[EV Nerd]

Just took delivery of a 2021 Crimson Pearl Touring, and feel fortunate to have found a vehicle equipped the way I wanted in an exterior and interior color set that I also wanted. New cars are tough to find right now. The Clarity completes a stable that also currently includes a 2021 Chevy Bolt EV and a 2008 Honda S2000.

The S2000 is shortly going to my son, as he demanded right of first refusal when I decided to sell it. It's incredible that I can get $35k for a car that I paid $33k for, thirteen years ago.

I've been driving EVs since 1997, starting with a '97 EV-1. Since then, we've put PV on the roof, leased two more EV-1s ('99 and '97a), bought a fleet-lease-returned 1999 Ford Ranger EV, an E-GPR electric motorcycle conversion, a 2001 Toyota RAV4-EV, a 2011 Nissan Leaf, 2011 Chevy Volt, the '21 Bolt and '21 Clarity. I'm hoping that the Clarity will be the last vehicle I ever need to buy.

Bought the Clarity to replace the '11 Volt, which we sold to another son. Great car, but showing its age. The Clarity is really the only remaining vehicle on the market that both fits the need of an around-town EV, and a road-tripper. It's criminal that both GM and Honda have stopped making these workhorse PHEVs, that can successfully bridge the gap between an EV and an ICE vehicle.

As a recovering EE, I really geek over the tech in new vehicles, and look forward to the day when I can call up a driverless car to take me wherever I want to go. We're just not quite there yet.

I noticed that gasoline is about $5 a gallon around here right now. I haven't cared about gas prices in over twenty years.

 

[2002]

Wow that is an amazing history you have there. What type of range did you get with your EV-1s?

I have been driving hybrids since 2002, in fact my username is an homage to my 2002 Prius Gen 1, which I estimate was about the 30,000th hybrid vehicle sold in the U.S. when I bought it in June of 2002. I am somewhat in the minority in that I see a strong future for PHEV's. I think the problem right now is that less than 1% of the population even knows they exist much less how they work. Unfortunately what isn't helping is that the EV community for the most part is not supportive of PHEV's, which I think many of them see as a wimpy compromise for those who aren't willing to make a full commitment to EV.

Even most PHEV owners like to think of their car as an EV with a gas backup. Okay I get that, for many people it works out that way for them, especially with a 50 mile PHEV like Clarity. But that viewpoint in my opinion puts an unnecessary limit on who can benefit from a PHEV. In my opinion the real benefit of a PHEV is that it greatly reduces the amount of gasoline consumed. For example even someone with just a 25 mile PHEV and a 75 mile daily commute (let's say no charging available at work), then yes they have to use gas for fifty miles a day. Leading to the common wisdom that they should have instead bought an EV.

However not everyone is ready to accept having to charge on road trips, and not everyone is willing or able to install a 240V outlet where they park their car. But if they have access to a 120V outlet, they can drive 125 miles per week in EV mode, weekdays, plus up to fifty more miles of EV on the weekend, for a potential of 175 miles per week that they are not using gasoline. That is far from trivial. And of course with Clarity that could be up to 350 miles per week without gasoline, all with just level 1 charging at home. They seem to understand this in Europe, and I think eventually the benefits of a PHEV will be better understood in the U.S. as well. At least I hope so, as in my opinion we need transitional vehicles like hybrids and PHEV's for at least another ten years if not longer. Either way I sure do enjoy driving my Clarity.

 

[EV Nerd]

The 1997 PbA EV-1s got about 65 miles of range. The 1999 NiMH EV-1s got about 110 miles. The re-issued '97a were PbA, and got the same 65 miles.

Great little cars. Real head-turners. Incredibly quick in a straight line, but didn't corner worth spit. Probably related to their 4" wide high pressure LRR tires...

 

[tommyboy]

I live in Southern Utah and had to go to Los Angeles to get my 2021 last Monday. White with beige interior. I was really tired of black interiors (all three of my priuses were black interior). Locally the dealer had never heard of the Clarity. I went into the local dealership on Thursday to buy touch-up paint (a necessity here locally). I ran into the salesman and he asked me if I wanted to look at another car. I told him he could look at my Clarity in the customer parking area if he wanted. He didn't, but the service manger sure did!

 

[EV Nerd]

I live in Southern Utah and had to go to Los Angeles to get my 2021 last Monday. White with beige interior. I was really tired of black interiors (all three of my priuses were black interior). Locally the dealer had never heard of the Clarity. I went into the local dealership on Thursday to buy touch-up paint (a necessity here locally). I ran into the salesman and he asked me if I wanted to look at another car. I told him he could look at my Clarity in the customer parking area if he wanted. He didn't, but the service manger sure did!

The Clarity Touring that my local dealer had was black exterior and black interior. I told him I had zero interest in black on black, BUT.... I was interested in a red exterior with a beige interior. It took a couple of weeks, but he found one for a trade.

Rather than tacking a simple "market adjustment" of $5k on the Monroney sticker, this dealer required the purchase of an extended warranty (which I was getting anyway), ceramic surface treatment and a LoJack. At least I got some value for the high-profit add-ons that I was forced to buy. New Clarity Plug-in Tourings are very hard to find, and new vehicles in general are in short supply. New Claritys will be even harder to find soon, as production is stopping next month. I just sucked it up and went for it, because this might be my last chance to get a plug-in hybrid with a respectable EV range.

The good news is that my 2008 S2000 is worth about five grand more than I paid for it...time to sell!

Edit to add: Are the last four digits of your VIN 1994 perchance?

 

[tommyboy]

The Clarity Touring that my local dealer had was black exterior and black interior. I told him I had zero interest in black on black, BUT.... I was interested in a red exterior with a beige interior. It took a couple of weeks, but he found one for a trade.

Rather than tacking a simple "market adjustment" of $5k on the Monroney sticker, this dealer required the purchase of an extended warranty (which I was getting anyway), ceramic surface treatment and a LoJack. At least I got some value for the high-profit add-ons that I was forced to buy. New Clarity Plug-in Tourings are very hard to find, and new vehicles in general are in short supply. New Claritys will be even harder to find soon, as production is stopping next month. I just sucked it up and went for it, because this might be my last chance to get a plug-in hybrid with a respectable EV range.

The good news is that my 2008 S2000 is worth about five grand more than I paid for it...time to sell!

Edit to add: Are the last four digits of your VIN 1994 perchance?

last four of the VIN is 1986. Its a white touring model. I bought the Hondacare extended warranty from Hyannis Honda. it cost me $1585 for the zero deductible 8 year 120,000 mile policy. I think this is the same guy who sold me an extended warranty on my old Prius through Toyota. I know Toyota shut that guy's operation down because he was undercutting all the local dealers and they complained.

 

[EV Nerd]

last four of the VIN is 1986. Its a white touring model. I bought the Hondacare extended warranty from Hyannis Honda. it cost me $1585 for the zero deductible 8 year 120,000 mile policy. I think this is the same guy who sold me an extended warranty on my old Prius through Toyota. I know Toyota shut that guy's operation down because he was undercutting all the local dealers and they complained.

Ah. Not the white Touring I was also looking at. We've driven white vehicles for a long time, and wanted something different this time. Red/beige fit the bill, but black/black did not.

Sounds like a good deal on the extended warranty. I paid $2k (after negotiating down from $2700).

 

[tommyboy]

Ah. Not the white Touring I was also looking at. We've driven white vehicles for a long time, and wanted something different this time. Red/beige fit the bill, but black/black did not.

Sounds like a good deal on the extended warranty. I paid $2k (after negotiating down from $2700).

Red with beige was my first choice, too but I could only find black or gray on black in other places.

 

[Tourist]

Just took delivery of a 2021 Crimson Pearl Touring, and feel fortunate to have found a vehicle equipped the way I wanted in an exterior and interior color set that I also wanted. New cars are tough to find right now. The Clarity completes a stable that also currently includes a 2021 Chevy Bolt EV and a 2008 Honda S2000.

I've been driving EVs since 1997, starting with a '97 EV-1. Since then, we've put PV on the roof, leased two more EV-1s ('99 and '97a), bought a fleet-lease-returned 1999 Ford Ranger EV, an E-GPR electric motorcycle conversion, a 2001 Toyota RAV4-EV, a 2011 Nissan Leaf, 2011 Chevy Volt, the '21 Bolt and '21 Clarity. I'm hoping that the Clarity will be the last vehicle I ever need to buy.

Bought the Clarity to replace the '11 Volt, which we sold to another son.... It's criminal that both GM and Honda have stopped making these workhorse PHEVs, that can successfully bridge the gap between an EV and an ICE vehicle.

As a recovering EE, I really geek over the tech in new vehicles, and look forward to the day when I can call up a driverless car to take me wherever I want to go. We're just not quite there yet.

I noticed that gasoline is about $5 a gallon around here right now. I haven't cared about gas prices in over twenty years.

I'm paying $ .115 cents per KWH, and I'm in California (I'm lucky with a good electricity provider.) I'm thrilled I bought this used vehicle last April. Good to hear an experienced EV owner like you approves of the Honda Clarity. My Pontiac G-6, which was a great car at the time, has been relegated to "beater car" status. Poor thing. It got orphaned, too. Let's just say I adopt orphaned cars as a sad hobby.

A big welcome to a fellow CA owner. Operational expenses cover the purchase price, and I hate paying gas taxes, just out of principle. Now, I just want a spare tire. We have too many pot-holes here, and I fear endangering my beloved machine...

 

[EV Nerd]

I'm paying $ .115 cents per KWH, and I'm in California (I'm lucky with a good electricity provider.) I'm thrilled I bought this used vehicle last April. Good to hear an experienced EV owner like you approves of the Honda Clarity. My Pontiac G-6, which was a great car at the time, has been relegated to "beater car" status. Poor thing. It got orphaned, too. Let's just say I adopt orphaned cars as a sad hobby.

A big welcome to a fellow CA owner. Operational expenses cover the purchase price, and I hate paying gas taxes, just out of principle. Now, I just want a spare tire. We have too many pot-holes here, and I fear endangering my beloved machine...

Currently, EVs are paying an extra $100 each year in CA for their car registrations. This "bonus" $100 we give the state (supposedly) goes to the same place that the fifty cents per gallon in road taxes that ICE owners pay.

Don't be surprised when other taxes are shifted from motor fuel to a mileage-based system. Stay tuned.

 

[tommyboy]

We pay $52 per year in Utah. We have a mileage option. Break even on that is 12,000 miles. Drive more,, pay more.. drive less,, you pay a lot less. If you take a long view of it, it makes sense. The state doesn't get the taxes from gasoline consumption, but still pays for roads we drive on. And at 4,000 lbs the Clarity is a pretty heavy vehicle. If you drive 12,000 miles per year, at 42 mpg that would be 285 gallons. Multiplying 285 by 50 cents gives $143, so you are still better off. Of course most of us drive more, but use more electricity than gas which still makes our cost per mile cheaper by comparison. If you are in California, or another state that gives you an HOV pass, that is just frosting on the cake

 

[2002]

Don't be surprised when other taxes are shifted from motor fuel to a mileage-based system. Stay tuned.

Taxing by mileage would be difficult. It would only be easy in states that already have annual emissions testing like we have in Georgia. Prior to registration we take our cars to an emissions testing center where the emissions data is read into their computer via the OBD-II port and then transmitted to the state. So they could include the odometer reading in the data if they aren't already. Slight hassle for EV owners who would now have to take their cars in once a year to an emissions testing center which they currently don't have to.

For all other states however it wouldn't be as easy, they would have to set up something out in the parking lot of the DMV offices where people could drive up and have their odometer read. There would need to be some type of enclosed structure or at least a tent for inclement weather and to keep workers out of the sun. For people who pay their registration in person it probably wouldn't add that much more time to the process, other than they have sit in a line to get their odometer read, and then go park and go inside and stand in line to pay the registration. People who would normally pay by mail or online would now have to drive to a DMV office.

I suppose they could also set up a system where you could take your car to participating dealers or repair shops, but that would require those locations to install computer systems to read and transmit odometer readings to the state. Then again I think dealers in most states already have a system for transmitting vehicle registration information to the state, so they could add mileage reporting functionality to those systems. But someone has to pay for that, and my guess is it won't be the dealer. With the current systems dealers pay a transaction fee to the company that provides the system, I think they pay something like $5.00 per transaction. Then the dealer charges that to the buyer and marks it up to $20 or whatever, listed on the invoice with a cryptic acronym like ETR (electronic title registration) which because of the small amount no one will pay attention to. I saw an ad for one of these systems and the vendor was touting how much profit dealers can make on this. Although for mileage reporting I would think most states would set a limit on how much a dealer can charge for doing the mileage reading, just like there is a limit for how much emission centers can charge for emissions testing. But still you have to drive to a dealer and wait who knows how long before they get to you and read your odometer. And then pay $10 or whatever.

My guess is that other than states with emissions testing, most states will stick with their current method for now, until maybe cars in the future can self report this type of thing.

 

[fotomoto]

For all other states however it wouldn't be as easy, they would have to set up something out in the parking lot of the DMV offices where people could drive up and have their odometer read

Here in Texas, annual mileage is already recorded in yearly tax registration/safety inspections. These annual fees also include a local road/bridge fee amongst others.

KISS for ALL vehicles: annual miles x weight (load factor)=road usage fees. Maybe seeing all these costs upfront and at one time instead of combined with gasoline prices would transition folks to more efficient transportation. (a fella' can dream.....)

 

[2002]

Here in Texas, annual mileage is already recorded in yearly tax registration/safety inspections. These annual fees also include a local road/bridge fee amongst others.

KISS for ALL vehicles: annual miles x weight (load factor)=road usage fees. Maybe seeing all these costs upfront and at one time instead of combined with gasoline prices would transition folks to more efficient transportation. (a fella' can dream.....)

Safety inspections is the same as emissions testing, not all states do it. And the ones that do seem to be mostly biannual. There are only about ten states that currently have annual emissions and/or safety inspections. And some of those states the inspections don't begin until the second or third year, and in many states emissions testing is not required for vehicles more than about twenty five years old. Also in many states emissions testing is only required in some areas, not all.

So for the vast majority of states, switching to a mileage based registration system means they have start requiring annual vehicle inspections for all cars everywhere in the state, or else perform the odometer readings at the state registration offices. Certainly possible, and I agree there are benefits to this method, but implementing it will in most cases add a time and cost burden both to the registration offices and to the public. Thus I predict that for the immediate future anyway the EV surcharge method will be the more common method.

 

[fotomoto]

There are only about ten states that currently have annual emissions and/or safety inspections

Got it backwards. About 15 states don't do any testing meaning 35 do. Also, most of those 15 states (FL being the big exception) are low population density.

Vehicle inspection in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[EV Nerd]

Basing road use taxes on vehicle weight and miles driven would be the most fair method, as that's the determiner on how much wear and tear any given vehicle provides to the roads.

Implementation is problematic, to say the least.

 

[2002]

Got it backwards. About 15 states don't do any testing meaning 35 do.

Only about 10 states do annual testing, the other 25 states do biannual or only at initial registration.

Also, most of those 15 states (FL being the big exception) are low population density.

Population density doesn't change the fact that those states would have to implement some type of mileage reading method.

Basing road use taxes on vehicle weight and miles driven would be the most fair method, as that's the determiner on how much wear and tear any given vehicle provides to the roads.

One problem could be commercial vehicles registered out of state. Currently it's not exactly fair because trucks might fill up in one state and drive through another, but generally speaking they "spread the wealth" by filling up at least some of the time in the states that they drive through. Maybe they would need to keep a fuel tax system at truck stops.

 

[tommyboy]

In Utah, only the four highly populated counties that make up metro Salt Lake - Prove have annual smog testing. the other counties don't have testing at all. When I lived in California we had to smog check the car once it was four years old. in the old days any hybrid or electric car was exempt. Now the hybrids have smog checks (just a way to get more money).The hoot is that the Clarity (and my previous Prius Prime) will never have the engine running at any speed they conduct the test. I guess they just check the OBD II readouts.

 

[EV Nerd]

Newer ICE vehicles tend to not get the ol' "sniffer-up-the-tailpipe" test any more. With all the sensors built in to the ICE, the necessary performance data is pretty much there, on the OBDII port.

There should be a method (known to the smog shops) to get the ice running just for the tests. The Chevy Volt would fire up the ICE (when "on") if the hood was opened. I haven't tried the Clarity, yet.

 

[Tourist]

Currently, EVs are paying an extra $100 each year in CA for their car registrations. This "bonus" $100 we give the state (supposedly) goes to the same place that the fifty cents per gallon in road taxes that ICE owners pay.

Don't be surprised when other taxes are shifted from motor fuel to a mileage-based system. Stay tuned.

I'm not surprised at anything the Sacramento domeheads do anymore. With only electric vehicles being allowed to be sold in California in 2030, and with our undependable grid, I suspect that the tax on Kwh to be far beyond our current road and gas taxes. Before that, I'd be better off to drive my Clarity over the hump and move to a sensible state.

I'm not suggesting that we "jail-break" our EV & PV cars, like many people do with their phones, but I don't doubt that it will be done by somebody when the government taxes them. Until then, enjoy your new car and cross your fingers. It's a lovely machine.