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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi,

I just got a 2018 Clarity delivered by Carvana, and have tried to use the charging timer and the app to charge my car overnight. Two attempts so far, and both resulted in only 31 miles worth of charge. Here are the details of my setup:
Dedicated 120V charger in the garage.
Timer set from 12 midnight to 8am.
Battery level started at zero both times.
31 miles of charge received overnight instead of the expected 48 miles.
Used the same charger I have for my Chevy Volt.

Any suggestions (is there a setting to allow 12A rather than 8A charging?) are most welcome!

Thanks in advance!

Barrett
 

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How high is the charging bar on the left side of the dashboard display? If it's not at the top then you either need a longer charging period or an L2 EVSE. The Clarity always uses 12 amps on L1 charging unless the EVSE itself only supports 8 amps.
 

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Barrett

The level 1, 120v unit that comes with the Clarity when new requires ~12 hours to reach max charge. The native L1 charger is rated ~ 12amps.

Try plugging the car in...start the charge... and let it charge till green light goes off/car quits charging on its own (ie) no timer. If it is maxed at 8 amps it'll take a while longer.

Good luck.
 

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Barrett

The level 1, 120v unit that comes with the Clarity when new requires ~12 hours to reach max charge. The native L1 charger is rated ~ 12amps.

Try plugging the car in...start the charge... and let it charge till green light goes off/car quits charging on its own (ie) no timer. If it is maxed at 8 amps it'll take a while longer.

Good luck.
Yes, this is correct - don't use the timer.
Just plug her in and let her charge all the way until the green light goes out.

L1 charging is slow.

I use a dual voltage charger (Duosida) that has higher current draw for L1 and charges fully in 8-9 hours beating out the Honda OEM charger by 3-4 hours.
 

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Used the same charger I have for my Chevy Volt.

Any suggestions (is there a setting to allow 12A rather than 8A charging?)
To make sure your question is clear, you also have a Chevy Volt and you have recently added Clarity to your fleet, and you are charging Clarity using the same EVSE that you use on your Volt. And if I understand correctly you feel that you are getting a slower charge rate in your Clarity than you do when using the same EVSE on your Volt. And although you didn't state it your message implies that using that same charger you are able to fully charge your Volt battery in the same time period (midnight to 8:00 am). Is that a correct summary? Can you tell us something about the EVSE that you are using, is it the original Chevy OEM or something you purchased? Do you know what amps the EVSE is rated for? Also what year is your Volt, the battery sizes in the Volt ranged from 16 to 18 kWh, Clarity has 17 kWh. Although to extend battery life none of them use the full battery capacity, I'm not sure about the Volt but the Clarity uses about 14 kWh of its battery.

Clarity doesn't have an amperage setting, does your Volt? The Clarity will take whatever the EVSE provides up to 32 amp. Although for Level 1 the highest EVSE available is 16 amp. The Clarity OEM EVSE is 12 amp. Note that 16 amp charging can only be safely done on a 20 amp circuit, per the electrical code continuous power on a circuit should not exceed 80% of the circuit capacity, thus 16 amp EVSE for a 20 amp circuit, 12 amp EVSE for a 15 amp circuit.

Also any particular charging session does not always run at the same amps the entire time. If the system detects that the battery is getting warm it will turn on a fan and it may slow down the charging rate for a period of time. Also once you get to about 85% the charge rate slows down quite a bit until you get to 100%. Although I would expect the Volt works the same.

All that being said I don't know of any obvious reasons why you seem to experience slower charging with your Clarity than you do using the same charger with your Volt. There might be differences between the two cars that causes it, but also two charge sessions may not be representative it might become more clear after you charge a few more times.
 

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Hi,

I just got a 2018 Clarity delivered by Carvana, and have tried to use the charging timer and the app to charge my car overnight. Two attempts so far, and both resulted in only 31 miles worth of charge. Here are the details of my setup:
Dedicated 120V charger in the garage.
Timer set from 12 midnight to 8am.
Battery level started at zero both times.
31 miles of charge received overnight instead of the expected 48 miles.
Used the same charger I have for my Chevy Volt.

Any suggestions (is there a setting to allow 12A rather than 8A charging?) are most welcome!

Thanks in advance!

Barrett
What generation Volt? I use my Gen2's charger on the Clarity and it charges at 12 amps (based on charge time). I have a Duosida dual voltage charger plugged into a 240V 20amp circuit that I plug my Volt into now. The Clarity's EVSE is sitting behind the driver seat in my Volt along with my 40 ft 10 gauge all weather extension cord. I put my Volt's EVSE on the Clarity because it's a 25 ft cord and the Clarity's is only 12 ft.
 

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If the battery is all the way down, 8 hours is not enough time for a full charge with at a 12A L1 rate. A full charge is roughly 15kWh, and at 12A the L1 charge rate is about 1.4kW. So that is about 11 hours. You must already be charging at 12A, because at 8A the L1 charge rate is about 1kW, so you would only get 8kWh in 8 hours. Conservatively figure 3 miles/kWh, so that would be good for only about 24 miles of EV range. If you need to be ready to drive at 8am, you would need to start your charge cycle earlier in the evening.
 

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To make sure your question is clear, you also have a Chevy Volt and you have recently added Clarity to your fleet, and you are charging Clarity using the same EVSE that you use on your Volt. And if I understand correctly you feel that you are getting a slower charge rate in your Clarity than you do when using the same EVSE on your Volt. And although you didn't state it your message implies that using that same charger you are able to fully charge your Volt battery in the same time period (midnight to 8:00 am). Is that a correct summary? Can you tell us something about the EVSE that you are using, is it the original Chevy OEM or something you purchased? Do you know what amps the EVSE is rated for? Also what year is your Volt, the battery sizes in the Volt ranged from 16 to 18 kWh, Clarity has 17 kWh. Although to extend battery life none of them use the full battery capacity, I'm not sure about the Volt but the Clarity uses about 14 kWh of its battery.
I get the same rate in the Clarity as with my Volt when using any of my three EVSEs plugged into a 120v 20 amp circuit, assuming I tell the Volt to charge at 12 amps. The Clarity appears to not have the 8 amp option.

Clarity doesn't have an amperage setting, does your Volt? The Clarity will take whatever the EVSE provides up to 32 amp. Although for Level 1 the highest EVSE available is 16 amp. The Clarity OEM EVSE is 12 amp. Note that 16 amp charging can only be safely done on a 20 amp circuit, per the electrical code continuous power on a circuit should not exceed 80% of the circuit capacity, thus 16 amp EVSE for a 20 amp circuit, 12 amp EVSE for a 15 amp circuit.
The Gen 2 (2016-2019) Volt defaults to 8 amps when using L1 charging. This is to protect older house wiring that is barely up to code for 15 amp circuits. There is an override that you can set to use 12 amps at your "home". The Home setting has to be redone every 90 days. The EVSE that ships with the Gen 2 Volt is also capable of charging at 220V 12 amps with an appropriate adapter. I use a Duosida charger that gives me 16 amps on my 20 amp 240V circuit.

Also any particular charging session does not always run at the same amps the entire time. If the system detects that the battery is getting warm it will turn on a fan and it may slow down the charging rate for a period of time. Also once you get to about 85% the charge rate slows down quite a bit until you get to 100%. Although I would expect the Volt works the same.

All that being said I don't know of any obvious reasons why you seem to experience slower charging with your Clarity than you do using the same charger with your Volt. There might be differences between the two cars that causes it, but also two charge sessions may not be representative it might become more clear after you charge a few more times.
Sorry if I was confusing. Here's my EVSE setup:

- GM/Volt EVSE: 120V 8/12 amp or 240V 12 amp charging. This is currently the EVSE I use on the Clarity when at home as it plugs into a 120V 20 amp circuit.
- Clarity EVSE: 120V 12 amps.
- Duosida EVSE: 120/240V 16 amps charging. This is the EVSE I use daily for my Volt and is plugged into a 240V 20 amp outlet.

I use the GM and Duosida EVSEs because the outlets are inside the garage and the cars are on the driveway. These two EVSEs have 25 ft cables so they reach. I mounted cable management on the outside of both sides of the garage door. My wife doesn't want the birds pooping on her Clarity so it's on the 120V side of the driveway and my Volt is on the 240V side (under the tree). Both circuits were installed to be 20 amp circuits to drive Christmas lights. As such, they're 10 gauge 4 strand wire direct from the breaker box to the outlet. The 120V has my sprinkler system hard wired into it at the outlet so I couldn't convert it to 240V. Max current draw from my sprinkler controller is less than 5 amps, and then for only about 30 seconds at a time. The other circuit has been converted to a 240V circuit specifically to support the Duosida EVSE.

The Clarity's EVSE, which has a 12 ft. cable, plus a 40 ft. bright yellow 10 gauge 3 strand all weather extension cord are on the floorboard behind the driver's seat in my Volt, but I move it to the Clarity when we road trip in the Clarity. The Duosida came with a hard sided case - that's where I put the Clarity's EVSE to keep it clean.

As far as I can tell, all three EVSEs charge the two cars at the same speed as long as I remember to tell the Volt to use 12 amps on L1 charging. The Clarity fully charges a little faster because the battery is about 800 Wh smaller, but the charge rates appear to be the same. The Duosida maxes out my Volt's charging speed so I had no reason to install a larger circuit. I set my Volt's departure time to 5 AM so it won't start charging until after midnight, well after high usage. The Clarity is set to charge as soon as I plug it in as it normally sits on an L1 charger.
 
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The Gen 2 (2016-2019) Volt defaults to 8 amps when using L1 charging. This is to protect older house wiring that is barely up to code for 15 amp circuits.
I'm guessing that another reason is because a lot of people plug into non-dedicated 120V circuits. Nothing necessarily wrong with that but I suspect most people have no idea what other devices may be on the circuit that they are plugging the EVSE into. I had long ago made a circuit map for my house, testing each outlet and fixture to verify what circuit they were on, rather than relying on the vague label that is on the panel. I was surprised to discover that my garage outlet (there is only one) is on the same 15 amp circuit as the basement. I run a dehumidifier in the basement so I now have that on a timer so that it doesn't run during hours that I will be charging the Clarity.

As a side note, I like the timer that I found online to use with the dehumidifier, BN-LINK model BND/U78 Outdoor Heavy Duty Digital Programmable Timer. I am using it indoors but I like the display and features and how it wall mounts.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks for the detailed reply.
I switched to the EVSE that came with the Clarity and got the same result.
Based on other replies i have come to the conclusion that I just need to charge more than 8 hours, which is a bummer, as I am on a time of use rate.
 

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Thanks for the detailed reply.
I switched to the EVSE that came with the Clarity and got the same result.
Based on other replies i have come to the conclusion that I just need to charge more than 8 hours, which is a bummer, as I am on a time of use rate.
I am on a time of use rate plan also from 11:00 pm to 7:00 am, so that's when I do all of my charging, which most of the time is enough. Occasionally it's not enough time for what I need, but for me even the standard rate is still cheaper than using gas so if needed I charge outside of the super off-peak hours, but for me that's pretty rare that I need to do that. Level 2 of course would allow me to do a full charge within the eight hours, but the cost savings for me would be minimal and would in no way recoup the cost of the Level 2 installation even with the rebates that exist.

I can give you some scheduled charging tips in case you haven't figured some of them out yet. First of all the HondaLink app for me works great, some people have problems but for me it only rarely will not connect for timer scheduling, and even then I just try again later. In worst case you can set the charge schedule using the in-car menu, although oddly the in-car menu only lets you set charge timing in 10 minute increments whereas the app lets you set the schedule in five minute increments.

One thing that helps is to understand that the app does not control timer charging, the charge timer itself is stored in the car's computer. Even if your phone is turned off charging will still start at the scheduled time. The only thing the app does is allow you to remotely set the in-car timer.

You may have experienced that if you are late to plug in, charging will not start. In other words if charging is set for 11:00 pm to 7:00 am, but I don't get home until 11:05 pm, when I plug in nothing happens. Now 24 hours later if I am still plugged in it will start charging at 11:00 pm since the schedule repeats every day. But obviously I don't want to wait until tomorrow night to charge. But at the same time I don't want to just do a manual start using the key fob because using the keyfob starts a separate non-scheduled charge session which charges to full, which may go past 7:00 am. But the workaround is pretty simple, just adjust the schedule to start five minutes from now. So let's say it's 11:06 pm when I plug the charger in, I use the app to modify the schedule from my normal 11:00 pm - 7:00 am, to 11:10 pm - 7:00 am. A few minutes later at 11:10 pm charging starts and will run until 7:00 am. And here's the nice thing, once the new schedule kicks in at 11:10 pm and starts charging, I can immediately go back into the app and modify the schedule back to 11:00 pm - 7:00 am (or whatever I want). This will set up the timer for tomorrow night but it will not affect the current charging session which will continue running until 7:00 am. In fact I could set tomorrow nights session to run only from 11:00 pm to 3:00 am and the current charge session that is already running will keep charging until 7:00 am.

One thing I didn't notice for some reason until I already had my Clarity about six months is that if you have a charge schedule set, then every time you turn off the car, besides showing those stupid green leaves for eco score it also shows you what your current timer schedule is set for. Now that I know that I try and pay attention when shutting off the car to make sure the schedule is what I want, in case I previously changed the schedule for some reason then forgot to change it back.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
If the battery is all the way down, 8 hours is not enough time for a full charge with at a 12A L1 rate. A full charge is roughly 15kWh, and at 12A the L1 charge rate is about 1.4kW. So that is about 11 hours. You must already be charging at 12A, because at 8A the L1 charge rate is about 1kW, so you would only get 8kWh in 8 hours. Conservatively figure 3 miles/kWh, so that would be good for only about 24 miles of EV range. If you need to be ready to drive at 8am, you would need to start your charge cycle earlier in the evening.
Thanks for setting me straight on the charging math.
I think the battery capacity for the 2018 is more like 17kWh, which would make the time to a full charge from zero more like 12 hours.
 

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Thanks for setting me straight on the charging math.
I think the battery capacity for the 2018 is more like 17kWh, which would make the time to a full charge from zero more like 12 hours.
The pack size has remained the same in all model years and is indeed 17 kWh. However, you only have access to about 13 kWh of that. The upper and lower voltage limits on the pack are set to less than rated values to prolong the life of the battery.

It will take about 14-15 kWh from the plug to fully charge the battery. Charging is about 90% efficient - the rest becomes heat On a hot day you can hear the active cooling kick in while charging. Some people have been alarmed at the fan and other noise while the car was "off".
The application to the EPA shows that a battery depleted as much as the car will allow took; 14.6, 14.5, 14.5 & 14.5 kWh to fully charge from 240V after various range test cycles.
 

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The application to the EPA shows that a battery depleted as much as the car will allow took; 14.6, 14.5, 14.5 & 14.5 kWh to fully charge from 240V after various range test cycles.
I wonder what they meant by "as much as the car will allow". In normal driving when you deplete the battery down to 0 miles and HV automatically kicks in, the SOC is around 10%. From that point forward it seems to drift between 8% to 12% as it operates as a regular hybrid.

However if you sit parked with the AC running the SOC will drop all the way down to 1% before ICE comes on, it then charges it up to about 2% or 3% then shuts off and lets it drift back down to 1% before starting back up. I have heard reports that it will do the same thing in stop and go traffic if the speed remains at a crawl, ICE will not come on until it gets down to around 1%.

I am guessing that for the EPA test they didn't take it to that extreme and they just ran it down to 0 EV miles or about 10% since that is the minimum in "normal" driving situations.

As a side note I suspect that running it down to 1% on a regular basis is not good for the battery, even though I would expect that 1% displayed SOC still has a few percent of actual charge beneath that. But you are pushing it closer to depletion than you do in normal driving so I try not to let it get that low if I can help it, although not much you can do if you are stuck in stop and go traffic other than maybe switch to HV Charge.
 

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I wonder what they meant by "as much as the car will allow". In normal driving when you deplete the battery down to 0 miles and HV automatically kicks in, the SOC is around 10%. From that point forward it seems to drift between 8% to 12% as it operates as a regular hybrid.

However if you sit parked with the AC running the SOC will drop all the way down to 1% before ICE comes on, it then charges it up to about 2% or 3% then shuts off and lets it drift back down to 1% before starting back up. I have heard reports that it will do the same thing in stop and go traffic if the speed remains at a crawl, ICE will not come on until it gets down to around 1%.

I am guessing that for the EPA test they didn't take it to that extreme and they just ran it down to 0 EV miles or about 10% since that is the minimum in "normal" driving situations.

As a side note I suspect that running it down to 1% on a regular basis is not good for the battery, even though I would expect that 1% displayed SOC still has a few percent of actual charge beneath that. But you are pushing it closer to depletion than you do in normal driving so I try not to let it get that low if I can help it, although not much you can do if you are stuck in stop and go traffic other than maybe switch to HV Charge.
They run it on the dyno in EV mode until it fires the ICE
UDDS 30 (City) test is ~7.5 miles. They repeat until battery is discharged and then record the total miles and energy (from the wall) required to recharge the battery. They got 72.265 miles taking 14.601 kWh to recharge, then 72.721 miles and 14.501 kWh in the 2021 application.
The highway portion was 61.422 miles -14.485 kWh and 63.496 miles - 14.541 kWh.

https://iaspub.epa.gov/otaqpub/display_file.jsp?docid=50881&flag=1
 
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