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New L2 48A charger installed - $450 Emporia to share with Clarity and Ford Lightning

3147 Views 25 Replies 7 Participants Last post by  4sallypat, 
4sallypat
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Just installed a new Emporia 48A L2 charger to replace my wife's Duosida 20A L2 charger.

Reason: new Ford Lightning incoming - production started this week and expect built status at end of the month.

This new charger will charge the Clarity in 2 hours while the Lightning will take 8-10 hours at 48A.

Will be sharing between 2 vehicles.

Emporia charger (UL listed) $450.
Electrician installed it without use of conduit or running 6AWG copper for $300!

Total cost: $750.
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4sallypat said:
Just installed a new Emporia 48A L2 charger to replace my wife's Duosida 20A L2 charger.

Reason: new Ford Lightning incoming - production started this week and expect built status at end of the month.

This new charger will charge the Clarity in 2 hours while the Lightning will take 8-10 hours at 48A.

Will be sharing between 2 vehicles.

Emporia charger (UL listed) $450.
Electrician installed it without use of conduit or running 6AWG copper for $300!

Total cost: $750.
View attachment 1043
View attachment 1040
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View attachment 1041 View attachment 1044
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So what gauge wire was used?
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ClarityDave said:
So what gauge wire was used?
Click to expand...
4sallypat said:
Electrician installed it without use of conduit or running 6AWG copper for $300!
Click to expand...
It looks like the "Electrician" cut the plug off the flexible cord intended for a maximum 40A usage and wired it directly to the breaker.
Guessing no permit/inspection since code explicitly prohibits how this was done.
Was skimping on the extra <$100 in materials really worth it to compromise the safety of the install and therefore your home and vehicles?

If it were me, I'd make the "Electrician" come back and fix the hazard he created.
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jzchen
"6AWG copper"

Nice setup! Our Leviton 40A was installed on a 50A breaker. I wish we can add another charger when/if we get a pure EV but I'm not sure yet, may just share just like you. Our breaker box was noted as full by the electrician.

Did you consider the Ford charger that allows using the F150 as backup power for your home?
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DucRider said:
It looks like the "Electrician" cut the plug off the flexible cord intended for a maximum 40A usage and wired it directly to the breaker.
Guessing no permit/inspection since code explicitly prohibits how this was done.
Was skimping on the extra <$100 in materials really worth it to compromise the safety of the install and therefore your home and vehicles?

If it were me, I'd make the "Electrician" come back and fix the hazard he created.
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How would you consider it a hazard?
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4sallypat
DucRider said:
It looks like the "Electrician" cut the plug off the flexible cord intended for a maximum 40A usage and wired it directly to the breaker.
Guessing no permit/inspection since code explicitly prohibits how this was done.
Was skimping on the extra <$100 in materials really worth it to compromise the safety of the install and therefore your home and vehicles?

If it were me, I'd make the "Electrician" come back and fix the hazard he created.
Click to expand...
It's 6 AWG wire so it's perfect.

Commercial / Government electrician.

No hazard.
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4sallypat said:
It's 6 AWG wire so it's perfect.

Commercial / Government electrician.

No hazard.
Click to expand...
6 awg does NOT automatically support a 60A circuit - specifically NM-B and SOOW (among other variants) do not.

Apparently your handyman isn't too keen on following the NEC? This install shows it is out of his normal scope and/or he's too lazy to do any research before doing things he's not familiar with.
Or maybe Code is just a suggestion and is put in place only to make installations harder and/or more expensive by prohibiting safe wiring practices?

There are a number of reasons why using flexible cord is explicitly prohibited as a permanent wiring solution (and also never to be run behind walls).
Many people even make the mistake of using 6/2 NM-B (Romex) thinking that any/all 6 awg wire is suitable for a 60 amp circuit. Reading the NEC (and the manufacturers spec) will reveal that the for NM-B, the 60 degree column/rating must be used even though the conductors are rated for 90 degrees. Hence 55 A is the maximum allowed by code and why a proper installation of an EVSE on a 60A circuit requires MC (or THHN and conduit) or stepping up to 4 ga if you want to use NM-B (which is almost always too big for the power connectors in the EVSE).

Sticking by my assessment of no permit/inspection. Some folks figure "It works, so therefore it isn't a problem". Poor/unsafe installs usually have one thing in common - they work great right up to the time where they don't. Often the transition to not working occurs with some spectacular results.

ClarityDave said:
How would you consider it a hazard?
Click to expand...
SOOW (power cord) can't be used behind walls or to permanently wire fixtures. Plus, even if cord and plug that ships with the unit was 6 awg (more likely 8 awg), it is not rated to handle a 60A circuit.
It will work - at least for a while. The danger of a fire, while still very small, is greatly magnified by the improper wiring of that EVSE.
If the OP is comfortable with the increased risk, so be it. But knowing that it violates multiple sections of the NEC should give pause. Spend the $100 to make it as safe as possible and reduce unnecessary risk. What is the Value of your Lightning, Mach-e and house? Is saving $100 really worth it?

It boggles my mind that anyone familiar at all with residential wiring would cut the plug off a power cord and wire it directly into the panel. Mention that "solution" to any licensed electrician and see what their response is. Commercial codes are usually even more restrictive.
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jzchen
@DucRider Thank you for clarifying. I remember when reading the instructions for our Leviton 40A I ended up asking for 3 AWG but it's a much longer run. (I made sure I read the wording on the cables he pulled to verify the gauge)...
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jzchen
BTW- Is there a way you figured out the power cord was cut? The description on Amazon where he bought it says either plug-in or hardwired. I just assumed he picked the hard wired option and it's "code eligible" for lack of better words....
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T
If it was the hardwired version you would not have a flexible cord exiting the unit as it appears in the picture.

It would have a built in junction box with a knock out for building wire.
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DucRider said:
6 awg does NOT automatically support a 60A circuit - specifically NM-B and SOOW (among other variants) do not.

Apparently your handyman isn't too keen on following the NEC? This install shows it is out of his normal scope and/or he's too lazy to do any research before doing things he's not familiar with.
Or maybe Code is just a suggestion and is put in place only to make installations harder and/or more expensive by prohibiting safe wiring practices?

There are a number of reasons why using flexible cord is explicitly prohibited as a permanent wiring solution (and also never to be run behind walls).
Many people even make the mistake of using 6/2 NM-B (Romex) thinking that any/all 6 awg wire is suitable for a 60 amp circuit. Reading the NEC (and the manufacturers spec) will reveal that the for NM-B, the 60 degree column/rating must be used even though the conductors are rated for 90 degrees. Hence 55 A is the maximum allowed by code and why a proper installation of an EVSE on a 60A circuit requires MC (or THHN and conduit) or stepping up to 4 ga if you want to use NM-B (which is almost always too big for the power connectors in the EVSE).

Sticking by my assessment of no permit/inspection. Some folks figure "It works, so therefore it isn't a problem". Poor/unsafe installs usually have one thing in common - they work great right up to the time where they don't. Often the transition to not working occurs with some spectacular results.


SOOW (power cord) can't be used behind walls or to permanently wire fixtures. Plus, even if cord and plug that ships with the unit was 6 awg (more likely 8 awg), it is not rated to handle a 60A circuit.
It will work - at least for a while. The danger of a fire, while still very small, is greatly magnified by the improper wiring of that EVSE.
If the OP is comfortable with the increased risk, so be it. But knowing that it violates multiple sections of the NEC should give pause. Spend the $100 to make it as safe as possible and reduce unnecessary risk. What is the Value of your Lightning, Mach-e and house? Is saving $100 really worth it?

It boggles my mind that anyone familiar at all with residential wiring would cut the plug off a power cord and wire it directly into the panel. Mention that "solution" to any licensed electrician and see what their response is. Commercial codes are usually even more restrictive.
Click to expand...
So I have a question. According to NEC, is 6 AWG cable ok to use on a 60A breaker as long as the calculated load is less than 55A? I’m not asking about the specific cable being used in the photos above. Just a general question about the use of 6 AWG.
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jzchen
I want to guess that is less than a 2 ft run, maybe even only 1 ft. As kindly shared by @Trolle the cord was cut and then (it looks like) the ends just attached to the poles as shown.

A couple of things as I know:

Circuits are meant to be used at 80% breaker rating. Hence 0.8 × 60A (breaker rating) = 48A which is the maximum amperage of the charger.

The gauge of wire necessary depends on the length of the run. You need thicker wire as you increase the length.

In this particular case it looks like the cord was cut then connected. No extension added hence why he isn't concerned. As built the unit's cord (length) should handle the amperage it was designed for in the first place. My wire was run in conduit/metal pipe, all the way to the breaker box. Curious if NEC allows such a short run to not be in conduit? I would not know beyond that what the code requires....
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T
I believe any wiring running in walls according to code cannot be of a flexible type like shown in the picture, it included extension cords.

Low voltage wiring is ok, like ringer wire the limit is 50v.
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jzchen
1. I thought I saw in the specs if it comes with a cable with plug then that wiring is limited to 40A, in which case @DucRider is correct and running at 48A may be risky, 8A is 20% more current...

2. I'm surprised that "in wall" equals through the wall for the NEC. If I am driving and come to an intersection I cross a street, but am not considered driving on that cross street? 🤔 (I guess technically while I am crossing I am)...
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jzchen said:
1. I thought I saw in the specs if it comes with a cable with plug then that wiring is limited to 40A, in which case @DucRider is correct and running at 48A may be risky, 8A is 20% more current...

2. I'm surprised that "in wall" equals through the wall for the NEC. If I am driving and come to an intersection I cross a street, but am not considered driving on that cross street? 🤔 (I guess technically while I am crossing I am)...
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It’s probably limited to 40A with the plug because the plug itself has a 50A rating.
I do not know whether this is according to code or not. In fact, I can’t tell for sure what really was done just from looking at the photos. But I personally doubt there’s much risk of a problem. If the wire was originally intended to carry the current that would be used by the vehicle through the EVSE then you’ve got to believe it would actually be safer without a plug and receptacle involved. Like I said, I don’t know if it’s the ‘right’ way to do it but I’m pretty sure there’s little if any risk involved in doing it that way.
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ClarityDave said:
So I have a question. According to NEC, is 6 AWG cable ok to use on a 60A breaker as long as the calculated load is less than 55A? I’m not asking about the specific cable being used in the photos above. Just a general question about the use of 6 AWG.
Click to expand...
6 awg NM-B (aka Romex) is rated for a max circuit size of 55A and cannot be used with a 60A breaker.
Specs from the Southwire site:
Font Parallel Number Screenshot Rectangle

ClarityDave said:
It’s probably limited to 40A with the plug because the plug itself has a 50A rating.
I do not know whether this is according to code or not. In fact, I can’t tell for sure what really was done just from looking at the photos. But I personally doubt there’s much risk of a problem. If the wire was originally intended to carry the current that would be used by the vehicle through the EVSE then you’ve got to believe it would actually be safer without a plug and receptacle involved. Like I said, I don’t know if it’s the ‘right’ way to do it but I’m pretty sure there’s little if any risk involved in doing it that way.
Click to expand...
The factory cord is designed for a max circuit of 50A.
Running without a plug/receptacle IS safer, but requires the proper wire and installation method. Hardwiring is the only approved method of using any EVSE at 48A (or above).

There are two main problems with this install:
1) Wire is undersized for the load
2) The wire type/rating is not allowed for permanent wiring, in wall use, and a variety of other issues (See NEC 400.5, 400.7, 400.8 as a start)

Unless permitted in 400.7, as described in the previous paragraph, 400.8 states flexible cords and cables shall not be used as a substitute for a structure’s fixed wiring; run through holes in walls, structural ceilings, suspended ceilings, dropped ceilings or floors; run through doorways, windows or similar openings; attached to building surfaces (except in accordance with 368.56(B) from busway plugs to equipment with extra-hard usage cord or listed bus-drop cable); concealed by walls, floors or ceilings or located above suspended or dropped ceilings; installed in raceways except where specifically permitted elsewhere in the NEC; or where subject to physical damage.
The purpose of most requirements in 400.8 is to ensure the flexible cords or cables are readily visible for inspection for damage and other problems with the cords or cables. Concealment of flexible cords and cables has been an NEC violation almost from the inception of flexible cords and cables.

As I stated before, it is unlikely that a fire will result from this install.
BUT, the likelihood of a fire is magnitudes greater than if a proper installation was done.

The fact that someone would do this at all would lead me to question other details of the install like proper strain relief, torque on the connections to the breaker, etc.
6/3 MC cable is less $5/ft. The OP saved <$20 by having a "creative" (aka half a**ed) install done.

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DucRider said:
6 awg NM-B (aka Romex) is rated for a max circuit size of 55A and cannot be used with a 60A breaker.
Click to expand...
How does that work with NEC 240.4 which states, “The next higher standard overcurrentdevice rating (above the ampacityof the conductors being protected) shall be permitted to be used, provided all of the following conditions are met:
  1. The conductors being protected are not part of a branch circuit supplying more than one receptacle for cord-and-plug-connected portableloads.
  2. The ampacity of the conductors does not correspond with the standard ampere rating of a fuse or a circuit breaker without overload trip adjustments above its rating (but that shall be permitted to have other trip or rating adjustments).
  3. The next higher standard rating selected does not exceed 800 amperes.” ?
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ClarityDave said:
How does that work with NEC 240.4 which states, “The next higher standard overcurrentdevice rating (above the ampacityof the conductors being protected) shall be permitted to be used, provided all of the following conditions are met:

    • The conductors being protected are not part of a branch circuit supplying more than one receptacle for cord-and-plug-connected portableloads.
    • The ampacity of the conductors does not correspond with the standard ampere rating of a fuse or a circuit breaker without overload trip adjustments above its rating (but that shall be permitted to have other trip or rating adjustments).
    • The next higher standard rating selected does not exceed 800 amperes.” ?
Click to expand...
It would indeed be OK for a 60A breaker (my previous wording was sloppy - I should have indicated circuit vs breaker). The rating for the circuit would still be 55A and the max EVSE draw would be 44A
The rating of the conductors themselves doesn't increase with a larger breaker - the entire circuit must be able to support 60A.
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DucRider said:
6 awg NM-B (aka Romex) is rated for a max circuit size of 55A and cannot be used with a 60A breaker.
Specs from the Southwire site:
View attachment 1056

The factory cord is designed for a max circuit of 50A.
Running without a plug/receptacle IS safer, but requires the proper wire and installation method. Hardwiring is the only approved method of using any EVSE at 48A (or above).

There are two main problems with this install:
1) Wire is undersized for the load
2) The wire type/rating is not allowed for permanent wiring, in wall use, and a variety of other issues (See NEC 400.5, 400.7, 400.8 as a start)

Unless permitted in 400.7, as described in the previous paragraph, 400.8 states flexible cords and cables shall not be used as a substitute for a structure’s fixed wiring; run through holes in walls, structural ceilings, suspended ceilings, dropped ceilings or floors; run through doorways, windows or similar openings; attached to building surfaces (except in accordance with 368.56(B) from busway plugs to equipment with extra-hard usage cord or listed bus-drop cable); concealed by walls, floors or ceilings or located above suspended or dropped ceilings; installed in raceways except where specifically permitted elsewhere in the NEC; or where subject to physical damage.
The purpose of most requirements in 400.8 is to ensure the flexible cords or cables are readily visible for inspection for damage and other problems with the cords or cables. Concealment of flexible cords and cables has been an NEC violation almost from the inception of flexible cords and cables.

As I stated before, it is unlikely that a fire will result from this install.
BUT, the likelihood of a fire is magnitudes greater than if a proper installation was done.

The fact that someone would do this at all would lead me to question other details of the install like proper strain relief, torque on the connections to the breaker, etc.
6/3 MC cable is less $5/ft. The OP saved <$20 by having a "creative" (aka half a**ed) install done.
Click to expand...
If I'm not mistaken, what we typically call Romex usually contains solid conductors. The Southwire table is indicating stranded wire for the power and neutral leads, and solid for the ground lead. Stranded and solid conductors have different current-carrying capabilities.
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EV Nerd said:
If I'm not mistaken, what we typically call Romex usually contains solid conductors. The Southwire table is indicating stranded wire for the power and neutral leads, and solid for the ground lead. Stranded and solid conductors have different current-carrying capabilities.
Click to expand...
334.80 Ampacity.
The ampacity of Types NM, NMC, and NMS cable shall be determined in accordance with 310.15. The allowable ampacity shall not exceed that of a 60°C (140°F) rated conductor. The 90°C (194°F) rating shall be permitted to be used for ampacity adjustment and correction calculations, provided the final derated ampacity does not exceed that of a 60°C (140°F) rated conductor. The ampacity of Types NM, NMC, and NMS cable installed in cable tray shall be determined in accordance with 392.80(A).

Rectangle Font Material property Parallel Screenshot


The above table assumes an ambient temperature of 86 degrees F. Higher ambient temps (common in many garages) would further reduce the allowable current below the 55A in the above table.
If when running cable for an EVSE install you have more than one NM sharing the same hole thru a stud, additional derating is required.
Multiple NM type cables in close proximity and in contact with wall insulation require even further derating.

Bottom line is the highest rating you can get for 6 awg Romex is 55A. There are many fairly common installations have factors that potentially reduce the allowable amount even further.
6 awg NM (romex) should never be used to wire a 60 A circuit

.
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