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Just found this website tonight as I’m researching my substantial range decrease. Live in MN with 55K miles on my ‘18 Clarity. I was lucky to get 40 EV miles this summer and great numbers the past two. Working from home cuz of Covid, it wasn’t that big of deal since I was barely driving 40 miles a day. Now I’m seeing trips barely clearing 35 miles before the gas kicks in. Oh, and driving no more than 55-60 mph.

Great info so far. Will push to get battery tested and also look at the service bulletins.

We have a ‘13 Volt too with 125K miles on it and the degradation has been minimal, I’m really frustrated so happy to see so many helpful posts.
 

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And actually a float’s position on a vertical rod when measured is also a guess and in some cases not a very accurate one.
I don't think I would say that a gas gauge is guessing. It is an instrument taking a reading. Like any instrument the accuracy depends on the particular instrument. You wouldn't say that a speedometer is guessing how fast you are going. It is taking a reading, with several variables that can affect its accuracy.

An EV range estimator on the other hand has to at least partially guess, because it has no way to know what the conditions will be on your next trip. It starts with an instrument reading of the SOC, then it looks at data history for recent trips to calculate what was the average miles per kWh on those trips, perhaps weighted towards the most recent trip. But after that it has to essentially guess what the conditions will be on your next trip. Will it be uphill or downhill, 70 mph or 40 mph, 85 degrees Fahrenheit or ten below freezing. Even though it knows the current temperature that doesn't help because it has no idea when your next trip will start, your next trip might be in one minute or in one week. And how will the car be loaded, just you, or the whole family and the husky and all of your luggage and a 50 lb sack of dog food for the husky. You may know some or all of that information, but the car doesn't, so it guesses based on your most recent trips. Or to be more accurate it "guesses" that your next trip will be under similar conditions as your most recent trips. Gas gauges don't do any of that, they just take a reading and report it, with the accuracy depending on the instrument.

Future EV range estimators will probably get more sophisticated and factor in the current planned route including speed, topography, predicted weather along the route including wind direction (based on your input of estimated departure time). Tire pressure (which affects range), maybe even the current weight of the car. But to make it really accurate you would need to be able to input what your intentions are in regards to the speed limit, because going 15 mph over the speed limit will have a big impact on range. But I kind of think car makers are not going to have a setting in their NAV system where you can inform the car that you intend to speed, seems like their lawyers would have a say about that. I guess the system could notice what your previous habits are in regards to the speed limit (just don't tell the lawyers). But wait, maybe dad likes to speed but when mom is driving she goes the speed limit (or vice-versa). Since it doesn't know who will be driving, the EV estimator will also have to be tied into the seat memory system, i.e. who is driving today, fob #1 (law-abiding spouse) or fob #2 (speeder spouse)
 

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Actually, I was responding to obermd's post about how "Volt owners refer to the battery charge information in the Volt as a Guess-o-Meter."


You are speaking of an EV range estimator which is different. I assume that a battery charge information gauge would read the percentage of charge left in the battery. The amount of charge that's put into the battery can be measured and the amount of energy extracted from the battery can be measured. Of course there are variables that need to be taken into consideration such as how efficient the charging of the battery is.



But you are right that the gas gauge is an instrument taking a reading. It's just that it's not reading the quantity of the gas in the tank, it's essentially doing its best at reading the height or level of the surface of the fuel above the bottom of the gas tank. Therefore to use that measurement as a gas gauge is an extrapolation.


The same is true for speedometers. They are not instruments that measure the speed or velocity of the vehicle. Instead, they read the number of revolutions of an axle or possibly a driveshaft. Therefore, they also extrapolate the vehicle's speed from this measurement. If you're stuck in a snow drift and spinning your wheel(s) the speedometer will likely show that the vehicle is moving when it's really not.


My point is that many of the 'gauges' in a vehicle are at least a little bit removed from reality. Without getting into semantics, my statement that a gas gauge is essentially a 'guess' is based upon the fact that it does not actually measure what it purports to measure.
 

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Actually, I was responding to obermd's post about how "Volt owners refer to the battery charge information in the Volt as a Guess-o-Meter."

You are speaking of an EV range estimator which is different. I assume that a battery charge information gauge would read the percentage of charge left in the battery. The amount of charge that's put into the battery can be measured and the amount of energy extracted from the battery can be measured. Of course there are variables that need to be taken into consideration such as how efficient the charging of the battery is.

But you are right that the gas gauge is an instrument taking a reading. It's just that it's not reading the quantity of the gas in the tank, it's essentially doing its best at reading the height or level of the surface of the fuel above the bottom of the gas tank. Therefore to use that measurement as a gas gauge is an extrapolation.

The same is true for speedometers. They are not instruments that measure the speed or velocity of the vehicle. Instead, they read the number of revolutions of an axle or possibly a driveshaft. Therefore, they also extrapolate the vehicle's speed from this measurement. If you're stuck in a snow drift and spinning your wheel(s) the speedometer will likely show that the vehicle is moving when it's really not.

My point is that many of the 'gauges' in a vehicle are at least a little bit removed from reality. Without getting into semantics, my statement that a gas gauge is essentially a 'guess' is based upon the fact that it does not actually measure what it purports to measure.
You are right I completely misread obermd's post and thought they were talking about the EV range estimator because that is what the guess-o-meter moniker is normally used for, rereading their post I realize now that they were in fact referring to battery charge or SOC indicator which apparently some Volt owners also refer to as a guess-o-meter.

Another example of what you are talking about are the instruments used in airplanes, like the altimeter doesn't actually measure altitude, it measures barometric pressure, and then based on the typical change in pressure that occurs with altitude it then makes an estimate of your current altitude. For it to be really precise it requires that you input the adjusted sea level barometric pressure of the area that you are flying over, without that information it does start to get into some guessing. Interestingly airplanes flying at high altitudes all use a standard sea level barometric pressure of 29.92, which even though most of the time that will be wrong, since everyone's altimeter is using the same wrong barometric pressure, then the altitude relationship between airplanes will be accurate, and that's really all that you are concerned about at that point is your relationship to other airplanes, at high altitude the exact distance to the ground is not as important.


Volt owners refer to the battery charge information in the Volt as a Guess-o-Meter. The reason for this is there is no battery/electrical equivalent to a gas tank's float system, where the float's position on a vertical rod is measured and then converted into gallons left. It really is a guess, albeit a very well calculated guess.
Okay now that I have read your post correctly I understand the comparison with a gas gauge.
 

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You are right I completely misread obermd's post and thought they were talking about the EV range estimator because that is what the guess-o-meter moniker is normally used for, rereading their post I realize now that they were in fact referring to battery charge or SOC indicator which apparently some Volt owners also refer to as a guess-o-meter.

Another example of what you are talking about are the instruments used in airplanes, like the altimeter doesn't actually measure altitude, it measures barometric pressure, and then based on the typical change in pressure that occurs with altitude it then makes an estimate of your current altitude. For it to be really precise it requires that you input the adjusted sea level barometric pressure of the area that you are flying over, without that information it does start to get into some guessing. Interestingly airplanes flying at high altitudes all use a standard sea level barometric pressure of 29.92, which even though most of the time that will be wrong, since everyone's altimeter is using the same wrong barometric pressure, then the altitude relationship between airplanes will be accurate, and that's really all that you are concerned about at that point is your relationship to other airplanes, at high altitude the exact distance to the ground is not as important.



Okay now that I have read your post correctly I understand the comparison with a gas gauge.
Wow, you know a lot about airplanes. I am going to guess that you are a private pilot. I am, myself, a private pilot and that’s the only way I would know that planes that fly above 17,999 feet use the standardized baro pressure of 29.92 to set their altimeters. Another good example is the airspeed indicator which involves a comparison between a pitot and static pressure. And even that has to be adjusted for different altitudes.
 

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I have a 2018 Clarity purchased new in Feb. 2019 with 17K miles. EV range has dropped tremendously from new. In the spring and autumn of 2019 was getting close to 50 miles of EV when commuting 52 miles daily. ICE would kick in about 2-3 miles from home. This autumn I am lucky if it kicks in 10 miles from home, usually it kicks in earlier. Didn't commute this Spring (COVID) so I don't have a basis for comparison. It is probably best to consider specified EV range in an EV or PHEV with a grain of salt. In a future EV or PHEV I will derate the range specs. by 40%.
 

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I have a 2018 Clarity and for the most part a happy customer. I've learned to deal with the fact that my dogs are going to regularly set the brake-hold and other transmission buttons (wish they weren't face up as if inviting my dogs paws); however, the steady decline in EV battery life over the past 2 years is getting me really mad. I only use the Level 1 charger that came with the car and recharge nightly. When I first got the car, I was excited to see anywhere from 54-57 EV range reported. The first winter it dropped into the low 40s but rebounded the next summer to right around 50. This past winter it dropped back into the upper 30s and never rebounded even as the Arizona temps got into the 100's. I finally took to dealer today who said there is nothing wrong with the car or battery....and nothing they can do about it. The car is still under warranty yet I've lost over 25% of my advertised EV range and this isn't a problem? If it was a gasoline only engine and in 2 years the MPG dropped by 25% in a vehicle below what it was advertised to provide, wouldn't someone other than the owner agree there is a problem?


Anyone else with a 2 year old Clarity seeing loss of EV range?
Yes. My Clarity was good for 2 + years. Now a few months ago I am getting only 34.3 miles range after a full charge. The dealer position is "there is nothing wrong with your battery" I am so angry I am going to send an EMail to Jeff Conrad V.P. and GM of Honda US. This is the EMail address I found [email protected]

I am wondering if anyone has Honda agreed that their battery is not good and replaced it.

I think the next step is a Class Action Lawsuit.
 

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The Clarity internal computer system monitors battery capacity and can indicate if the battery has lost capacity and if so how much. This information is obtained using Honda's i-HDS diagnostic software which all dealers and many independent shops have. I assume that is what the dealer looked at in your case, or at least that is what they should have been checking. Next time you have it checked ask them to let you know what the actual capacity was. A new battery will have a capacity of 55 Ah (amp hours). Honda will only replace a battery under warranty if the capacity has dropped below 36.6 Ah, which is a 33% loss of capacity. I have not heard of anyone who has lost that much capacity, most people who have had their battery checked get a number in the 50's, a few people have gotten a number in the upper 40's. If you get yours checked let us know what the result is.

There is a thread in this forum that goes into more detail on this topic located at this link:

 

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I am not sure if this is true but it looks like cold temperatures may cut the mileage down, that is obvious, however the battery may actually last longer.

"While cold temperatures temporarily decrease range and performance, they don’t threaten battery life in the same way that high temperatures do. Operation at high temperatures can accelerate the speed of battery degradation."
 

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Yes. My Clarity was good for 2 + years. Now a few months ago I am getting only 34.3 miles range after a full charge. The dealer position is "there is nothing wrong with your battery" I am so angry I am going to send an EMail to Jeff Conrad V.P. and GM of Honda US. This is the EMail address I found [email protected]

I am wondering if anyone has Honda agreed that their battery is not good and replaced it.

I think the next step is a Class Action Lawsuit.
In the same boat here, 2018 Clarity with 55k miles with about a ~14 mile range drop at once which is a big disappointment. Last summer it dropped down to 33 range which is now the new max range. Summertime I usually got around 48-51 and about 43 during wintertime [Southern California]. Have asked my local dealership several different times while my car was already there for service to test it but, was told they didn't have capability to do so. Thanks to others who've posted the instructions on using their i-HDS system, I have printed it and hoping this will help guide them to get a real answer.

John do you have any updates?
 

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I have a 2018 Clarity and for the most part a happy customer. I've learned to deal with the fact that my dogs are going to regularly set the brake-hold and other transmission buttons (wish they weren't face up as if inviting my dogs paws); however, the steady decline in EV battery life over the past 2 years is getting me really mad. I only use the Level 1 charger that came with the car and recharge nightly. When I first got the car, I was excited to see anywhere from 54-57 EV range reported. The first winter it dropped into the low 40s but rebounded the next summer to right around 50. This past winter it dropped back into the upper 30s and never rebounded even as the Arizona temps got into the 100's. I finally took to dealer today who said there is nothing wrong with the car or battery....and nothing they can do about it. The car is still under warranty yet I've lost over 25% of my advertised EV range and this isn't a problem? If it was a gasoline only engine and in 2 years the MPG dropped by 25% in a vehicle below what it was advertised to provide, wouldn't someone other than the owner agree there is a problem?


Anyone else with a 2 year old Clarity seeing loss of EV range?
I have the same issue with my 2018 Clarity with 17k miles. The range has dropped to 20 miles on battery alone from 40. Dropped it off to the dealership only to be told if there is no error light, there is nothing they can do. I’m simply shocked that this would be the answer. Not sure what the next step would be.
 

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I have the same issue with my 2018 Clarity with 17k miles. The range has dropped to 20 miles on battery alone from 40. Dropped it off to the dealership only to be told if there is no error light, there is nothing they can do. I’m simply shocked that this would be the answer. Not sure what the next step would be.
The dealer is not correct, the HV battery is eligible for warranty replacement if it loses more than 33% capacity. However warranty replacement is not determined by the range estimate that you get on your display, or even actual EV miles if you are somehow tracking that, since both are affected by temperature and driving conditions. The measure that is used is something called battery capacity, which is a number that the car calculates and stores in its computer, and which the dealer can easily obtain with their Honda diagnostic computer. The link below is to a thread that goes into this in more detail including what exactly to ask the dealer to look for since most of them don't seem to know.

Battery Capacity Check
 

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I have a 2018 Clarity and for the most part a happy customer. I've learned to deal with the fact that my dogs are going to regularly set the brake-hold and other transmission buttons (wish they weren't face up as if inviting my dogs paws); however, the steady decline in EV battery life over the past 2 years is getting me really mad. I only use the Level 1 charger that came with the car and recharge nightly. When I first got the car, I was excited to see anywhere from 54-57 EV range reported. The first winter it dropped into the low 40s but rebounded the next summer to right around 50. This past winter it dropped back into the upper 30s and never rebounded even as the Arizona temps got into the 100's. I finally took to dealer today who said there is nothing wrong with the car or battery....and nothing they can do about it. The car is still under warranty yet I've lost over 25% of my advertised EV range and this isn't a problem? If it was a gasoline only engine and in 2 years the MPG dropped by 25% in a vehicle below what it was advertised to provide, wouldn't someone other than the owner agree there is a problem?


Anyone else with a 2 year old Clarity seeing loss of EV range?
First off, i can't believe ive had my car for 3 years and finally thought of looking up and joining an owner's forum. I live in toronto, canada and certainly notice big differences in range during the winter (outside temps, winter tires with basic rims), but i do feel sometimes that the oomph in the vehicle that was so strong way back when is getting less, and that can't be related to the battery (i think). I truly wonder if there is some deterioration in the function of the electric-driven motor itself. Any thoughts?
 

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First off, i can't believe ive had my car for 3 years and finally thought of looking up and joining an owner's forum. I live in toronto, canada and certainly notice big differences in range during the winter (outside temps, winter tires with basic rims), but i do feel sometimes that the oomph in the vehicle that was so strong way back when is getting less, and that can't be related to the battery (i think). I truly wonder if there is some deterioration in the function of the electric-driven motor itself. Any thoughts?
Welcome aboard!

Same here - reaching the 3rd year and living in Southern California where we don't get winters - my range goes from 45 to 60+ miles per charge.

But then the biggest factor is the driving style and terrain/speed that affects the range.
I drive like an old man on a Sunday drive with no climate control, using regen paddles, and light feather acceleration while my wife drives it like a F1 roadster with climate control & sound blasting.
I get the 45-60 mile range while my wife gets 30-40 mile range....

Just happy there is a 10 warranty on the battery which I will take as I plan on keeping this car for a long time!
 

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I have a 2018 Clarity and for the most part a happy customer. I've learned to deal with the fact that my dogs are going to regularly set the brake-hold and other transmission buttons (wish they weren't face up as if inviting my dogs paws); however, the steady decline in EV battery life over the past 2 years is getting me really mad. I only use the Level 1 charger that came with the car and recharge nightly. When I first got the car, I was excited to see anywhere from 54-57 EV range reported. The first winter it dropped into the low 40s but rebounded the next summer to right around 50. This past winter it dropped back into the upper 30s and never rebounded even as the Arizona temps got into the 100's. I finally took to dealer today who said there is nothing wrong with the car or battery....and nothing they can do about it. The car is still under warranty yet I've lost over 25% of my advertised EV range and this isn't a problem? If it was a gasoline only engine and in 2 years the MPG dropped by 25% in a vehicle below what it was advertised to provide, wouldn't someone other than the owner agree there is a problem?


Anyone else with a 2 year old Clarity seeing loss of EV range?
Yes I have the same problem with my 2018 Honda clarity where it used to give 80 km per charge and now it is giving me only 50ish km. went to the dealer and they did a performance test and the result was NO THING WRONG WITH THE CAR!!. even the dealer service advisor was not convinced of what he was telling me. he said " this is what Honda Canada told us to do, we are just franchise dealer and we do what we are told !! he even told me to go after Honda Canada and that's what I am doing now. I advise you to go after them cuz I am taking them to court !
 

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Yes I have the same problem with my 2018 Honda clarity where it used to give 80 km per charge and now it is giving me only 50ish km. went to the dealer and they did a performance test and the result was NO THING WRONG WITH THE CAR!!. even the dealer service advisor was not convinced of what he was telling me. he said " this is what Honda Canada told us to do, we are just franchise dealer and we do what we are told !! he even told me to go after Honda Canada and that's what I am doing now. I advise you to go after them cuz I am taking them to court !
Thats quite a bold move to try to sue Honda. What exactly are you suing them for and are you representing yourself? Id love to know more.
 

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Yes I have the same problem with my 2018 Honda clarity where it used to give 80 km per charge and now it is giving me only 50ish km. went to the dealer and they did a performance test and the result was NO THING WRONG WITH THE CAR!!. even the dealer service advisor was not convinced of what he was telling me. he said " this is what Honda Canada told us to do, we are just franchise dealer and we do what we are told !! he even told me to go after Honda Canada and that's what I am doing now. I advise you to go after them cuz I am taking them to court !
There is a very specific warranty for battery capacity, and if it reaches that threshold (36.6 Ah) you are eligible for a warranty replacement. The 50km vs 80km implies that it could be degraded to that level, but the guess-o-meter is not a reliable indicator nor what the warranty is based on.
If it is above that level, I'm not sure what the basis for your lawsuit would be. Did they provide you with the battery test info the the Ah reading?
 

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Thats quite a bold move to try to sue Honda. What exactly are you suing them for and are you representing yourself? Id love to know more.
I will sue them for refusing to fix my car as the warranty is still in effect and it dose not drive as what it was advertised! isn't that enough reason to sue them for? or you like to pay money and not get what you paid for! I paid over $52,000 Canadian dollars for this car for what they advertised and now I will take them to court to get my money back or get my damn car fixed !!!
what do you think Jordan ?
 

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There is a very specific warranty for battery capacity, and if it reaches that threshold (36.6 Ah) you are eligible for a warranty replacement. The 50km vs 80km implies that it could be degraded to that level, but the guess-o-meter is not a reliable indicator nor what the warranty is based on.
If it is above that level, I'm not sure what the basis for your lawsuit would be. Did they provide you with the battery test info the the Ah reading?
no! the did not provide any test result. they just said your car is working in normal order and requested the dealer to release the car to me !
 
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