[Tourist]

Newbie here. I appreciate your forum. I just bought the 2018 Touring model and have lots to learn about it.

This might be in the archives, but I appreciate your tolerance.
Anybody know how many kilowatts and kWh this Clarity battery sucks up? For a full charge?

I'd like to compare this price with gas in my state, where everything is ridiculously expensive and highly taxed.

 

[2002]

Newbie here. I appreciate your forum. I just bought the 2018 Touring model and have lots to learn about it.

This might be in the archives, but I appreciate your tolerance.
Anybody know how many kilowatts and kWh this Clarity battery sucks up? For a full charge?

I'd like to compare this price with gas in my state, where everything is ridiculously expensive and highly taxed.

People who have measured it report that it takes around 14.4 kWh for a full charge. Meaning how much electricity you are getting billed for. The amount of electricity that actually makes it into the battery will be a bit less than that due to losses, but since you are calculating costs, using 14.4 kWh should be pretty accurate.

Figuring out your true electric cost is tricky though, you can't just look at the electric rate per kWh, as there are usually multiple taxes and tariffs that affect the cost just as much. Some of these are based on kWh and some are based on a percentage of the dollar cost of other charges. I had to do mine in a spreadsheet to get any kind of accuracy. And if you have tiered rates, to be realistic you should count charging in the upper tier(s). In my case for example, my pre-Clarity usage went barely into a higher tier. Because of that I count all of my charging as being in the higher tier, because what I am looking at is how has adding the Clarity affected my electric costs, and realistically all of the addition that it brings is in the higher tier.

 

[Tourist]

Thank you. I expect electricity rates to rise, too. But I really enjoy the car even though there's a learning curve for operating it. Thanks again.

 

[ClarityDave]

People who have measured it report that it takes around 14.4 kWh for a full charge. Meaning how much electricity you are getting billed for. The amount of electricity that actually makes it into the battery will be a bit less than that due to losses, but since you are calculating costs, using 14.4 kWh should be pretty accurate.

Figuring out your true electric cost is tricky though, you can't just look at the electric rate per kWh, as there are usually multiple taxes and tariffs that affect the cost just as much. Some of these are based on kWh and some are based on a percentage of the dollar cost of other charges. I had to do mine in a spreadsheet to get any kind of accuracy. And if you have tiered rates, to be realistic you should count charging in the upper tier(s). In my case for example, my pre-Clarity usage went barely into a higher tier. Because of that I count all of my charging as being in the higher tier, because what I am looking at is how has adding the Clarity affected my electric costs, and realistically all of the addition that it brings is in the higher tier.

Interesting how utilities vary from one area to another. For instance, where I live (IL) increased consumption can actually put you into a lower tier. So any usage over 800 kWh in a month is billed at a slightly lower rate. I generally just take my whole electric bill for an entire month (inclusive of all taxes & fees) and divide it by the number of kWh I used to get an average cost per kWh. I am usually around 7-9 cents but during some of the winter months when usage goes down (natural gas for heat) then it may jump to around 10-11 cents.

It’s also interesting how the Clarity is sold primarily in a state (CA) where electricity prices are generally what I would consider exorbitant. I have heard some Californians say that their break-even point is when gasoline is around 3 dollars a gallon or even higher whereas mine is usually less than $1.50.

 

[Tourist]

Interesting how utilities vary from one area to another. For instance, where I live (IL) increased consumption can actually put you into a lower tier. So any usage over 800 kWh in a month is billed at a slightly lower rate. I generally just take my whole electric bill for an entire month (inclusive of all taxes & fees) and divide it by the number of kWh I used to get an average cost per kWh. I am usually around 7-9 cents but during some of the winter months when usage goes down (natural gas for heat) then it may jump to around 10-11 cents.

It’s also interesting how the Clarity is sold primarily in a state (CA) where electricity prices are generally what I would consider exorbitant. I have heard some Californians say that their break-even point is when gasoline is around 3 dollars a gallon or even higher whereas mine is usually less than $1.50.

Gas here in my part the People's Republic is running around $3.79 per gallon. It will go up in the summer. If I charge the car overnight (off-peak) I'll pay $ 0.0135 per kWH, but I have a responsible electrical utility. Most of the big utilities in California have horrid rates and have frequent black-outs. It will get worse since the government here will mandate that only electrical vehicles can be sold here in 2030.

Fortunately, I now have a very fun and efficient vehicle I can use to escape and move back to the USA. 😁
Thank both of you for the info.

 

[2002]

If I charge the car overnight (off-peak) I'll pay $ 0.0135 per kWH

My TOU (Time of Use) overnight rate is 1.4 cents per kWh from 11pm to 7am, but the actual cost with taxes is 4.5 cents per kWh. How can this be? Because as I mentioned in my earlier post, some of the taxes and tariffs are calculated as a percentage of kWh used, so they are not affected by whatever the rate is. Where I live in Georgia the main one is something called Fuel Cost Recovery. It's called Energy Cost Recovery in some states, and maybe there are other names for it.

Here is the breakdown for my overnight rate for one kWh of charging:

Electric usage = 1.4 ¢
Fuel Cost Recovery = 2.4 ¢
Taxes = 0.7 ¢

Total = 4.5 ¢

Yes that is still a great price compared to other parts of the country, but not quite the 1.4 cents that you see on their advertising. The standard rate is 6 cents so you think that with a rate of 1.4 cents during overnight hours you will clean up. But comparing the two rates including taxes, the standard rate with taxes is around 11 cents, the TOU overnight rate is 4.5 cents, so a little less than half. Yes that's great, but it's only during 11pm - 7am. You then have to hope that those savings offset the higher prices that you pay during peak hours, which for me is 2pm - 7pm weekdays during the summer.

With the TOU plan the peak hours rate is 20 cents per kWh, with FCR and tax it's around 25 cents. If I try and run AC during peak hours the cost is astronomical and can easily wipe out the overnight savings. So what I do is I run the AC hard overnight when the rates are super cheap, much colder than I normally would, to try and pull as much heat out of the house as I can. Then I don't use AC between 2pm and 7pm on weekdays. If it all works out the house will be just about to get uncomfortably warm by 7pm when I can run AC again at a reasonable rate. Not everyone is willing to do that especially if they are home during those hours.

 

[Tourist]

My TOU (Time of Use) overnight rate is 1.4 cents per kWh from 11pm to 7am, but the actual cost with taxes is 4.5 cents per kWh. How can this be? Because as I mentioned in my earlier post, some of the taxes and tariffs are calculated as a percentage of kWh used, so they are not affected by whatever the rate is. Where I live in Georgia the main one is something called Fuel Cost Recovery. It's called Energy Cost Recovery in some states, and maybe there are other names for it.

Here is the breakdown for my overnight rate for one kWh of charging:

Electric usage = 1.4 ¢
Fuel Cost Recovery = 2.4 ¢
Taxes = 0.7 ¢

Total = 4.5 ¢

Yes that is still a great price compared to other parts of the country, but not quite the 1.4 cents that you see on their advertising. The standard rate is 6 cents so you think that with a rate of 1.4 cents during overnight hours you will clean up. But comparing the two rates including taxes, the standard rate with taxes is around 11 cents, the TOU overnight rate is 4.5 cents, so a little less than half. Yes that's great, but it's only during 11pm - 7am. You then have to hope that those savings offset the higher prices that you pay during peak hours, which for me is 2pm - 7pm weekdays during the summer.

With the TOU plan the peak hours rate is 20 cents per kWh, with FCR and tax it's around 25 cents. If I try and run AC during peak hours the cost is astronomical and can easily wipe out the overnight savings. So what I do is I run the AC hard overnight when the rates are super cheap, much colder than I normally would, to try and pull as much heat out of the house as I can. Then I don't use AC between 2pm and 7pm on weekdays. If it all works out the house will be just about to get uncomfortably warm by 7pm when I can run AC again at a reasonable rate. Not everyone is willing to do that especially if they are home during those hours.

My "System Infrastructure" charge is a Fixed Cost. It's the same regardless of my electrical usage. With average taxes, I'm at about $ .16 per kWH at "non-peak" hours. Not bad, but there is huge pressure from our almighty leaders to institute a "per mileage" tax to replace the mandated high and useless gas tax that supposedly goes to maintain potholes, but funds their friends instead. This will not be a good tax for anybody with a hybrid or electric car.
Currently, I'm still better off than my standard car, and I like it's features. I don't even mind the back-end wheel panels, which some people complain about.

 

[ClarityDave]

My "System Infrastructure" charge is a Fixed Cost. It's the same regardless of my electrical usage. With average taxes, I'm at about $ .16 per kWH at "non-peak" hours. Not bad, but there is huge pressure from our almighty leaders to institute a "per mileage" tax to replace the mandated high and useless gas tax that supposedly goes to maintain potholes, but funds their friends instead. This will not be a good tax for anybody with a hybrid or electric car.
Currently, I'm still better off than my standard car, and I like it's features. I don't even mind the back-end wheel panels, which some people complain about.

Sixteen cents a kWh incl. all taxes and fees is certainly not too bad for CA. Take advantage of it while you can and when they decide to start finding other ways to tax you, start looking for another state to live in. (Just my opinion). CA is a great place to visit but fairly oppressive for my taste. I’m even starting to get the itch to leave IL over the craziness here. It isn’t terrible yet but it’s heading that way.

 

[Tourist]

Cheap rates (including ones for EV's and hybrids) do not fall out of the sky. They are subsidized by us, the humble taxpayer, and we have no choice but to obey the governments edicts. Still, it's a nice car. I just want a bumper sticker for it that says "I identify as a Chevy Suburban."

I'll leave it at that and watch my electric bill when the summer rates hit.

 

[EV Nerd]

Cheap rates (including ones for EV's and hybrids) do not fall out of the sky. They are subsidized by us, the humble taxpayer, and we have no choice but to obey the governments edicts. Still, it's a nice car. I just want a bumper sticker for it that says "I identify as a Chevy Suburban."

I'll leave it at that and watch my electric bill when the summer rates hit.

They will remain significantly lower than what you would have paid for gasoline. Far less than half, I'd guess.

 

[ClarityDave]

Cheap rates (including ones for EV's and hybrids) do not fall out of the sky. They are subsidized by us, the humble taxpayer, and we have no choice but to obey the governments edicts. Still, it's a nice car. I just want a bumper sticker for it that says "I identify as a Chevy Suburban."

I'll leave it at that and watch my electric bill when the summer rates hit.

Of course that all depends upon the electric utility and the state or local govt. I get cheaper rates not because some other “humble taxpayer” is subsidizing me, but because I’m willing to shift my electricity usage to a time period when the utility sells the energy cheaper because demand is lower (among other things).

 

[EV Nerd]

Of course that all depends upon the electric utility and the state or local govt. I get cheaper rates not because some other “humble taxpayer” is subsidizing me, but because I’m willing to shift my electricity usage to a time period when the utility sells the energy cheaper because demand is lower (among other things).

Absolutely. By shifting our usage to times outside of peak consumption, we're allowing the utility to not build more peaker plants to support short-term needs (that are between 4PM and 9PM here in SCE territory). That yields lower costs for the utility, and they are sharing that savings with us time-shifters. I even got a grant from SCE, if I agreed to use power from my Powerwalls (instead of the grid) from 4PM to 9PM. During the non-Winter seasons, when I still produce from the PV after 4PM, it all goes out to help support the grid. It's a win-win for us, and the utility.

It doesn't cost other rate-payers a dime, and in fact, I paid several tens of thousands of dollars for the privilege of helping the grid, the environment, and my fellow consumers. It will take about ten years (ROI) for me to see any personal benefit.