[Ishwa]

Hello! I hope to be a 2018 Clarity PHEV owner soon because I will have a new 110 mile round trip commute in a month. Based on this I expect to hit 35,000 miles per year (mostly highway) and expect to deplete the battery pack every single work day.


What kind of battery health/life impact will this have? I know there is a 100k mile battery & hybrid warranty period but I expect to hit that in just under three years. Also, what do you all think about it making it to 200k miles and beyond on the original battery with this usage?

 

[Purity]

Hello Ishwa, happy to hear that you are considering a new Clarity. One of the biggest factors that contributes to battery degradation is constant rapid/quick charging. From what it sounds like you'll mostly be charging at home so that shouldn't be an issue. Most EV's do see an initial drop off in range, but that very much levels out over the first few years.

 

[Cruiter]

Daily complete depletion

Welcome, and your questions are valid especially considering your primary use of the car. Prior to my Clarity, I've owned two Lexus Hybrids. The 1st was my RX 450h and a Lexus CT Fsport. I also have the 1st year production of the Segway i2 which is the 2nd generation I bought new in 2005 so a little experience in powerful batteries. I did research as to the best ways to use and care for them to obtain long life cycles. In the Lexus Hybrid's, the battery technology was nickel cadium vs the type our cars and my Segway have. The biggest difference in the two is the nickel cadium batteries are designed to be quick charging with powerful surges and quick depletion making them great for the general 'Hybrid' use. Our type is designed to deplete slower while still giving maximum power but takes longer to recharge. Battery technology has come a long way especially in just this century. Some of the NY Taxies are Lexus and Toyota hybrids with over 200,000 miles and still using the original batteries.

All that being said, consider 'X' as a finite number of 'complete' recharge cycles (from fully charged down to safe discharged level). Research has taught me that it will extend the amount of time (years and/or miles) your battery is useful if you can prevent 'full discharges' by keeping a charging cycle going while using at the same time (as hybrid setups do) rather than systematically draining to near empty before re-charging back to full. If I were in your situation, I'd just try to stay in HV (Hybrid Vehicle) mode as much as possible and still get between 40 and 50 MPG. If you do that, you likely will not get to test Honda's great battery warranty and have it for quite awhile. Tesla's have been getting great reviews but you drive tethered in an accessible charging station infrastructure.

Thought for the day; did you know the Clarity Touring's NAV system will show the Level II charging stations on your route?

FWI; my Segway's batteries are still original and giving me nearly the same range as when they were new. When I'm not riding it, it's in the house plugged in 24/7. I can still get nearly 20 miles off a charge. I don't know anyone else that cares for their Segway batteries that way, and I don't know anyone else that has that kind of life cycle on them.

PHEV vehicles are still sort of a novelty but more manufacturers every year are showcasing new models in growing numbers. Honda has committed to 70% of their car production being PHEV by 2030. For planning purposes that's a pretty serious commitment. For 2019, they added a new model already, the Insight.

Hello! I hope to be a 2018 Clarity PHEV owner soon because I will have a new 110 mile round trip commute in a month. Based on this I expect to hit 35,000 miles per year (mostly highway) and expect to deplete the battery pack every single work day.


What kind of battery health/life impact will this have? I know there is a 100k mile battery & hybrid warranty period but I expect to hit that in just under three years. Also, what do you all think about it making it to 200k miles and beyond on the original battery with this usage?

 

[longfam18]

All that being said, consider 'X' as a finite number of 'complete' recharge cycles (from fully charged down to safe discharged level). Research has taught me that it will extend the amount of time (years and/or miles) your battery is useful if you can prevent 'full discharges' by keeping a charging cycle going while using at the same time (as hybrid setups do) rather than systematically draining to near empty before re-charging back to full. If I were in your situation, I'd just try to stay in HV (Hybrid Vehicle) mode as much as possible and still get between 40 and 50 MPG.

This is seriously great info, I hope more people read it. I fully drain my battery each day due to an 80 mile round trip where I combine EV and HV use. Perhaps I will incorporate more HV Charge to prevent the battery from depleting.

 

[Cruiter]

Thank you for the nice comment.
Every person's daily driving activity will be different so must be tailored to their use. If you drive roughly 40 miles each way daily and start with a full charge from overnight, you may be best by starting your drive in just HV mode. That will maintain most of the charge you start the day with.

This is seriously great info, I hope more people read it. I fully drain my battery each day due to an 80 mile round trip where I combine EV and HV use. Perhaps I will incorporate more HV Charge to prevent the battery from depleting.

 

[Claire Greene]

Hello! I hope to be a 2018 Clarity PHEV owner soon because I will have a new 110 mile round trip commute in a month. Based on this I expect to hit 35,000 miles per year (mostly highway) and expect to deplete the battery pack every single work day.


What kind of battery health/life impact will this have? I know there is a 100k mile battery & hybrid warranty period but I expect to hit that in just under three years. Also, what do you all think about it making it to 200k miles and beyond on the original battery with this usage?

Nothing to worry about, those Honda engineers thought of everything to the smallest detail. The Clarity was designed NOT to deplete the traction battery and designed NOT to charge to 100% even though battery gauge shows full charge. The engineers were aware that depleting and fully chargiing lithium ion batteries are detrimental to their life cycle. When you have zero miles left on EV the battery gauge will show 2 bars left. But if you are really concerned about this issue I suggest you do as some has suggested and use HV mode for your roundtrip commute. Unless you have a lot of hills and elevation changes or you drive insanely heavy footed you should have 10-15 miles EV left at the end of the day(I'm just guessing) Only way to find out is to give it a try.

 

[Ishwa]

Update:
So I found a free 240V charging station only a 10 minute walk from my job. As a result I’m now driving 54 miles in the morning on mostly EV (a few miles in HV mode), charging during the day, and then driving home almost entirely on electric depending on climate control usage. The car will now see two full discharge cycles every work day. Hopefully it doesn’t kill the battery!

I’m on track to hit 30-35k miles every year, hopefully the relatively young age of my batteries once I hit 100k miles will be beneficial. I thought about traditional hybrids too, but I liked the overall lower cost factoring in the fed and state tax credits. Not to mention near total insulation from gas price increases. We will see how this gamble plans out!

 

[Claire Greene]

This is seriously great info, I hope more people read it. I fully drain my battery each day due to an 80 mile round trip where I combine EV and HV use. Perhaps I will incorporate more HV Charge to prevent the battery from depleting.

HV charge is the worst power mode to use because it will drop your gas mileage to mid 30's. I have gone more than 80 miles on HV mode and used up only 50% of EV range. But if what you're doing is switching to EV mode when you get within EV range on your homeward commute then that is the proper way of using the power modes in which case you don't need to use HVcharge.

 

[Jack]

Interesting post here....Plug in technology and Lithium Ion batteries are not new technologies any more...

They do not charge them up all the way and do not discharge them all the way...

The key thing I learned that I was surprised about was to charge it up right before you use them..that is it takes about 2.5 hours to charge the battery...so, if you are going to work at 7 am, set it to charge at 4 am ....

Jack

 

[dwheat17]

Interesting post from Jack. This is the first time I have heard of this.

My electrical rates go down at 10pm so I charge mine at 10:10pm and if finishes around 12:15am (2 hours later). So it sits fully charged for about 8 hours before I started driving it.

Jack - Are you saying that it would be better if I charged it later so that it only sat for 1 hour fully charged instead of 8 hours? Any estimate on how much is gained by your methodology?

 

[Jack]

here is an interesting article to read..

https://www.plugincars.com/eight-tips-extend-battery-life-your-electric-car-107938.html

One of the things about lithium ion is it does not like being at 100% charge as much as 50%...

I have a prius plug in that i run dry all the time and drive in very hot weather....has 120,000 miles on it, and runs like a charm. I would imagine unless honda engineers messed up on the charging algorithm they will last a very long time too.

 

[DucRider]

The Clarity will never charge to 100%. The 100% charge that you see is referring to the amount the car's Battery Management System allows you to use (a "buffer" is reserved at the top and bottom so the battery itself is never at 100% or 0%). Tesla does open up a bit more of the battery at the top end and recommends that users not charge to 100%

Much of the fear and history behind many of these tips can be traced back to the Nissan LEAF and it's questionable battery chemisrty and lack of thermal management.

Honda has been excellent in battery management. We has a Fit EV that was charged to 100% virtually every evening for close to 5 years. With no discernible loss of range.

A properly designed EV won't make the user jump thru a bunch of hoops to use the car. I believe it is very unlikely that delaying your charging will have any noticeable impact on battery life. Bolt EV users have had this debate running for a couple of years. Nobody s reporting any significant battery degradation, with no difference between those that plug-in and charge to 100% at every opportunity and those that set manual timers, charge to lower percentages, delay charging to the last minute, etc.

On paper, there may be a very small advantage to using the "best practices" in the article above, but newer battery designs and BMS likely make that less critical in the real world. PHEV's also typically allow use of a smaller percentage of the "real" battery capacity since they have other modes to propell the car and no need to wring every mile of range from the battery.

 

[Cruiter]

Great article

Thanks Jack, that was a great read. Much of it is just good sense but it still bears reading and heading when possible. I do much of that already with the exception of delaying time to charge, mine starts at 11PM when the rates go down and usually takes just over an hour (my gauge at end of day is usually around 50% +/-) and I use a Level II charger. BTW, when reading my power bill compared to last year it's so close it's hard to tell how much I'm really paying for electric driving but I'd guess it's somewhere around $10 a month + or -. Sure beats 20MPG average with high test :grin:.

https://www.plugincars.com/eight-tips-extend-battery-life-your-electric-car-107938.html

One of the things about lithium ion is it does not like being at 100% charge as much as 50%...

I have a prius plug in that i run dry all the time and drive in very hot weather....has 120,000 miles on it, and runs like a charm. I would imagine unless honda engineers messed up on the charging algorithm they will last a very long time too.