First year energy usage

2621 Views 14 Replies 6 Participants Last post by EV Nerd, Mar 19, 2022

rogerdodger

Discussion Starter · Jan 16, 2022 (Edited)

Our PHEV Clarity (2021 base purchased new Jan.2021 with 10 miles on the odometer) has alerted me that it would like it's annual oil change so I took a few minutes and calculated our first year energy usage.

Location: Central Oregon Coast, small town (10K).
Usage: EV always close to home, HV when over 45mph on trips to Eugene and Corvallis, 1 trip to Seattle area during it's first year.
Climate: 95% of the year we are between 40F and 70F. Almost no AC required, we definitely use some electricity for heat and seat heat in the cooler months.
Max EV range: 62miles. Min. EV range: 34miles.
Other vehicle/fishing-towing rig: 2022 Tucson Hybrid

2021 Clarity PHEV
Miles driven: 4973
Total Gas input: 46.2 gal
"Gas only MPG"- 107.6
HV miles based on 40mpg estimate: 1848 (37%)
EV miles: 3125 (63%)
Gas not used based on 40mpg: 78 gal
$ not spent on gas based on $3.85 ave cost: $301

Electricity input based on 0.32kwhr/mile (calculated from my level2 charger data): 1000 kwhr
Electricity cost based on our $0.0774 rate: $77.40. Money saved using EV: $223
EV cost per mile: 2.4 cents
HV cost per mile: 9.6 cents

Note: we do not have solar panels but the Oregon electrical grid info that I found was it comes 75% from renewable/hydro.

First year maintenance cost: $5 for washer fluid, $26 for 5qt 0W-20 Mobil1, $5 oil filter.
Issues/alerts/visits to dealer: none.

cheers, roger

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tommyboy

· #2 · Mar 12, 2022

I am happy you like the car. I love mine. Your "gas only" mpg is not correct. 107 is unattainable. A more reasonable number is the official number from Honda at 42mpg. If you are looking at your mpg averages and you want a true indicator you need to zero one of the trip meters when the EV is depleted (leaving 2 bars and 0 miles for EV) and then see what you get. I have gone over 1000 miles several times in EV only (all shorter, local trips) and then had to go with HV for a short time and my mileage is between 100-200 because is includes the EV miles if I haven't zeroed it.
Nevertheless, it is a great car.
I am glad you are also considering the environmental benefits (you stated 75% renewable electricity) beyond gas mileage. I appreciate the superior air quality/lack of emissions (I do have PV solar that completely covers my home and charging) that this car provides.

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rogerdodger

Discussion Starter · #3 · Mar 12, 2022

tommyboy said:
I am happy you like the car. I love mine. Your "gas only" mpg is not correct. 107 is unattainable. A more reasonable number is the official number from Honda at 42mpg. If you are looking at your mpg averages and you want a true indicator you need to zero one of the trip meters when the EV is depleted (leaving 2 bars and 0 miles for EV) and then see what you get. I have gone over 1000 miles several times in EV only (all shorter, local trips) and then had to go with HV for a short time and my mileage is between 100-200 because is includes the EV miles if I haven't zeroed it.
Nevertheless, it is a great car.
I am glad you are also considering the environmental benefits (you stated 75% renewable electricity) beyond gas mileage. I appreciate the superior air quality/lack of emissions (I do have PV solar that completely covers my home and charging) that this car provides.

my bad for not defining the term, what I meant was to just ignore the electricity we input and divide the miles driven by the gasoline input into the car. Thus I used the term "Gas Only MPG'. It was not intended to mean the MPG while in Hybrid mode. In fact, in the next line, you see that I used 40mpg as the HV mpg estimate. cheers, roger

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ClarityDave

· #4 · Mar 12, 2022

rogerdodger said:
Our PHEV Clarity (2021 base purchased new Jan.2021 with 10 miles on the odometer) has alerted me that it would like it's annual oil change so I took a few minutes and calculated our first year energy usage.

Location: Central Oregon Coast, small town (10K).
Usage: EV always close to home, HV when over 45mph on trips to Eugene and Corvallis, 1 trip to Seattle area during it's first year.
Climate: 95% of the year we are between 40F and 70F. Almost no AC required, we definitely use some electricity for heat and seat heat in the cooler months.
Max EV range: 62miles. Min. EV range: 34miles.
Other vehicle/fishing-towing rig: 2022 Tucson Hybrid

2021 Clarity PHEV
Miles driven: 4973
Total Gas input: 46.2 gal
"Gas only MPG"- 107.6
HV miles based on 40mpg estimate: 1848 (37%)
EV miles: 3125 (63%)
Gas not used based on 40mpg: 78 gal
$ not spent on gas based on $3.85 ave cost: $301

Electricity input based on 0.32kwhr/mile (calculated from my level2 charger data): 1000 kwhr
Electricity cost based on our $0.0774 rate: $77.40. Money saved using EV: $223
EV cost per mile: 2.4 cents
HV cost per mile: 9.6 cents

Note: we do not have solar panels but the Oregon electrical grid info that I found was it comes 75% from renewable/hydro.

First year maintenance cost: $5 for washer fluid, $26 for 5qt 0W-20 Mobil1, $5 oil filter.
Issues/alerts/visits to dealer: none.

cheers, roger

Most electric suppliers break down the cost of electricity into the charge for the supply of the electricity itself and the charge for delivery to you. Then they add in taxes, customer charges, and regulatory fees. How do you come up with your cost of $0.0774 per kWh? Is that inclusive of all charges?

rogerdodger

Discussion Starter · #5 · Mar 12, 2022

ClarityDave said:
Most electric suppliers break down the cost of electricity into the charge for the supply of the electricity itself and the charge for delivery to you. Then they add in taxes, customer charges, and regulatory fees. How do you come up with your cost of $0.0774 per kWh? Is that inclusive of all charges?

yes, our electrical PUD here on the Oregon Coast is very simple, there is a $24 monthly service charge, required to provide power to our property and the city of Florence gets $2.12 per month. So the car has no part in those costs, they are fixed monthly costs and not based on usage.

We are then charged 7.74 cents per kilowatt hour used. That's it, very simple here.

So when we input electricity into our Clarity, it is costing us 7.74 cents per kilowatt hour.

cheers, roger

2002

· #6 · Mar 12, 2022

rogerdodger said:
yes, our electrical PUD here on the Oregon Coast is very simple, there is a $24 monthly service charge, required to provide power to our property and the city of Florence gets $2.12 per month. So the car has no part in those costs, they are fixed monthly costs and not based on usage.

We are then charged 7.74 cents per kilowatt hour used. That's it, very simple here.

So when we input electricity into our Clarity, it is costing us 7.74 cents per kilowatt hour.

cheers, roger

That certainly seems unusual compared to most other places. So you are saying that if you take the total amount of your bill, subtract $26.12, and then divide by your total kWh, it comes to 0.0774?

rogerdodger

Discussion Starter · #7 · Mar 12, 2022

2002 said:
That certainly seems unusual compared to most other places. So you are saying that if you take the total amount of your bill, subtract $26.12, and then divide by your total kWh, it comes to 0.0774?

correct, our marginal rate for power is 7.74 cents per kilowatt hour.

February, basically our highest bill of the year:

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ClarityDave

· #8 · Mar 12, 2022

rogerdodger said:
correct, our marginal rate for power is 7.74 cents per kilowatt hour.

February, basically our highest bill of the year:

That is a pretty good rate. Of course much of the electricity up there in the Pacific Northwest comes from hydroelectric so it’s cheaper than other places. I tend to include the total cost of my my electricity by dividing total amount by the number of kWh. In your case that would put your cost at 9.4¢/kWh which is still very good. My cost in IL is usually between 10 and 12¢/kWh. In some other places like CA it is much more expensive.

EV Nerd

· #9 · Mar 12, 2022

ClarityDave said:
That is a pretty good rate. Of course much of the electricity up there in the Pacific Northwest comes from hydroelectric so it’s cheaper than other places. I tend to include the total cost of my my electricity by dividing total amount by the number of kWh. In your case that would put your cost at 9.4¢/kWh which is still very good. My cost in IL is usually between 10 and 12¢/kWh. In some other places like CA it is much more expensive.

The CA average is about twice that ($.20-$.25/kWh). I have 5kW of PV on the roof, so only pay the taxes and fees ($7) monthly, and the true-up is $250 - $500 for the year. (Depends on the year's myriad factors.) A $500 bill sounds like a lot, but you have to figure it works out to be about $50 a month, with taxes and fees. That's a bargain, in these parts. I'm in year seven of the PV system, and it's getting real close to finishing paying for itself.

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ClarityDave

· #10 · Mar 12, 2022

EV Nerd said:
The CA average is about twice that ($.20-$.25/kWh). I have 5kW of PV on the roof, so only pay the taxes and fees ($7) monthly, and the true-up is $250 - $500 for the year. (Depends on the year's myriad factors.) A $500 bill sounds like a lot, but you have to figure it works out to be about $50 a month, with taxes and fees. That's a bargain, in these parts. I'm in year seven of the PV system, and it's getting real close to finishing paying for itself.

I really like the idea of having solar panels and I should do more research on it.

MPG+

· #11 · Mar 18, 2022

ClarityDave said:
That is a pretty good rate. Of course much of the electricity up there in the Pacific Northwest comes from hydroelectric so it’s cheaper than other places. I tend to include the total cost of my my electricity by dividing total amount by the number of kWh. In your case that would put your cost at 9.4¢/kWh which is still very good. My cost in IL is usually between 10 and 12¢/kWh. In some other places like CA it is much more expensive.

"In some other places like CA...", how about, like CT, now at $.23/kwh, highest in country, after HI.

ClarityDave

· #12 · Mar 19, 2022

MPG+ said:
"In some other places like CA...", how about, like CT, now at $.23/kwh, highest in country, after HI.

23 cents/kWh is high but I bet there are places in CA and maybe other states where it’s higher. But, still, if you’re paying that much you are still saving compared to the current price of gas.

2002

· #13 · Mar 19, 2022

ClarityDave said:
23 cents/kWh is high but I bet there are places in CA and maybe other states where it’s higher. But, still, if you’re paying that much you are still saving compared to the current price of gas.

When gas prices were low there were Clarity owners on the east coast who were literally not plugging in their cars because it cost them more to drive electric than to use gas. But yeah I suspect that is no longer the case anywhere in the U.S.

tommyboy

· #14 · Mar 19, 2022

EV Nerd said:
The CA average is about twice that ($.20-$.25/kWh). I have 5kW of PV on the roof, so only pay the taxes and fees ($7) monthly, and the true-up is $250 - $500 for the year. (Depends on the year's myriad factors.) A $500 bill sounds like a lot, but you have to figure it works out to be about $50 a month, with taxes and fees. That's a bargain, in these parts. I'm in year seven of the PV system, and it's getting real close to finishing paying for itself.

When we were still in Ontario, CA (California, not Canada, eh?) our PV system paid for itself in 7 1/2 years. SCE had two significant rate increases in our first 2 years of ownership which knocked 7 years off the payback period. Our payback here in So. Utah is closer to 13 years because of the lower cost of electricity (and the one-month relevant period instead of the 12 month used by SCE.

EV Nerd

· #15 · Mar 19, 2022

tommyboy said:
When we were still in Ontario, CA (California, not Canada, eh?) our PV system paid for itself in 7 1/2 years. SCE had two significant rate increases in our first 2 years of ownership which knocked 7 years off the payback period. Our payback here in So. Utah is closer to 13 years because of the lower cost of electricity (and the one-month relevant period instead of the 12 month used by SCE.

I'm still successfully staying in the Residential Tiered rate schedule, even though there have been at least three attempts by SCE to get me to switch to TOU. If requested, they're still required to allow me to be grandfathered in to the Tiered rate. I watch the bill inserts carefully, in order to know when to call them again.

SCE has an interesting Tier structure. Tier 1 is $.28/kWh up to 350kWh. Tier 2 is $.37/kWh from 351 to 1399 kWh. Tier 3 is $.46/kWh from 1400kWh and up. Except for during the dead of winter, with significant overcast, we rarely are in Tier 2. We run negative from March through September. Overall, we offset about 85% of our usage, on an annual basis. It helps a lot to be in the "Sun Belt", but I'd be willing to bet your production in Ontario was significantly better than ours, owing to the marine layer we face daily on the coast. It's a trade-off.

You might think that TOU would work better for us, but it doesn't. The daily fees on Tiered are far less than they are on a TOU, plus being retired, we're home all day, and the rate on a TOU while we're home, awake and active is higher than Tier 1. If we were working from 7AM to 6PM (with commute), TOU would work.

In order to be kind to the grid, we charge the Powerwalls until they're full (by ~1PM daily), and use the energy from them during Peak usage times of 3PM to 9PM. Any solar produced during that time goes directly to the grid. It costs us a few bucks every month, due to the round-trip inefficiencies of the Powerwalls, but it was a condition of a grant we got for 30% of the cost of the Powerwalls, so, we've been compensated up front for considerably more than it will cost us over the long run.

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