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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just a curiosity question: could the PHEV model’s @7 KWh battery be upgraded with the EV model’s 25 KWh battery?
 

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Just a curiosity question: could the PHEV model’s @7 KWh battery be upgraded with the EV model’s 25 KWh battery?
As long as you rip out the fuel tank and exhaust system there would be room (but you also lose a bit of trunk space).
 

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Didn’t think about losing the gas tank. So that answers my question
And now you left us with a curiosity question, which is why were you asking? Do you own a Clarity, or are you thinking about getting a Clarity? Obviously 80'ish EV miles is better than 50'ish, everyone would like that if it were possible, but do you have a specific reason you would like more miles, like your daily commute is a bit longer than that and you were hoping there might be a way to drive all electric most days in your situation?
 

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And now you left us with a curiosity question, which is why were you asking? Do you own a Clarity, or are you thinking about getting a Clarity? Obviously 80'ish EV miles is better than 50'ish, everyone would like that if it were possible, but do you have a specific reason you would like more miles, like your daily commute is a bit longer than that and you were hoping there might be a way to drive all electric most days in your situation?
This question would make sense if you own a BEV. For me the Clarity is the perfect setup in terms of EV miles and ICE. 70-75 EV kms. For daily commute is more than enough.
 

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….but I believe the battery will get smaller in the future and if one is ready to invest money can probably get one with large capacity.
 

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This question would make sense if you own a BEV. For me the Clarity is the perfect setup in terms of EV miles and ICE. 70-75 EV kms. For daily commute is more than enough.
Not quite sure that I understand, I mentioned that I think anyone would like to have more EV miles, are you saying that only someone who already owns an EV would want that?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
This question would make sense if you own a BEV. For me the Clarity is the perfect setup in terms of EV miles and ICE. 70-75 EV kms. For daily commute is more than enough.
I do own a 2018 Clarity PHEV, Va Vanity plate 17KWH. It is an excellent vehicle, and I consistently get 50 miles per charge. And the range in HV is is always in the 360 mile range, so no complaints. Well, except for tire/road noise. I was asking about a battery upgrade, because more range is better than less. And, it seems like Honda could have pushed the KWh with more efficient battery cells in newer model years; or have found a way to shoehorn the ICE motor and gas tank into the BEV, and remained more competitive in the EV market. 100 miles range EV and 400 mile range HV, at a Honda price and reliability, would be a formidable vehicle.
 

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I do own a 2018 Clarity PHEV, Va Vanity plate 17KWH. It is an excellent vehicle, and I consistently get 50 miles per charge. And the range in HV is is always in the 360 mile range, so no complaints. Well, except for tire/road noise. I was asking about a battery upgrade, because more range is better than less. And, it seems like Honda could have pushed the KWh with more efficient battery cells in newer model years; or have found a way to shoehorn the ICE motor and gas tank into the BEV, and remained more competitive in the EV market. 100 miles range EV and 400 mile range HV, at a Honda price and reliability, would be a formidable vehicle.
Definitely! Nissan Leaf already offer battery with 40% larger capacity for the early models.
 

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….but I believe the battery will get smaller in the future and if one is ready to invest money can probably get one with large capacity.
Only about 40,000 Clarity were produced, so I'm not sure if it would be worth their while to produce a higher capacity replacement battery for the Clarity.

It would be interesting if the Clarity would even recognize the higher capacity. Would it recalibrate to the higher Ah capacity, and then automatically adjust 100% SOC to that level? And also adjust the buffers? I.e. 100% displayed SOC is only about 90% of actual capacity to protect the battery from damage that occurs from charging to maximum capacity. What we don't know if that is a dynamic setting, i.e. as battery capacity degrades over time we don't know if the buffers are automatically lowered. If it's dynamic then maybe it would adjust upwards.

Anyway it's nice to dream, but currently the Clarity is nearly tied with the Volt as being the PHEV with the highest EV range, which is pretty remarkable considering how large and comfortable the car is. By the time battery technology improves and costs come down I suspect that there will be several new PHEV's and EV's that we will all have our eyes on.
 

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Not quite sure that I understand, I mentioned that I think anyone would like to have more EV miles, are you saying that only someone who already owns an EV would want that?
No. I’m not saying that. I said that choosing a PHEV and particularly Clarity, is giving you a good range.
 

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And, it seems like Honda could have pushed the KWh with more efficient battery cells in newer model years; or have found a way to shoehorn the ICE motor and gas tank into the BEV, and remained more competitive in the EV market.
Those are good points. However realistically PHEV's are competing with gas cars and regular hybrids, not EV's. It's only the tiny fraction of us who are already EV enthusiasts, but who for various reasons went with a PHEV, that think along those lines. People on forums like this are usually determined, sometimes almost obsessively to drive EV exclusively if at all possible. Nothing wrong with that, I'm just saying that doesn't really unlock the full nationwide potential of fossil fuel reduction that PHEV's are capable of. That will come from mass adoption of PHEV's, which will only happen when costs come down. Yes lower battery prices will eventually help, but in the meantime there are other methods to increase the number of PHEV's on the road to help fill in the gap with current EV sales which is currently only at about 2% of new car sales.

Let's say all 40,000 Clarity owners drive 50 miles per day, and let's just say very roughly that 50 EV miles saves one gallon of gas. So that's potentially 40,000 gallons of gas saved nationwide per day.

But what if Honda had a 35 EV mile PHEV, with better functionality, at lower cost, and they could actually make a profit on it and thus actually marketed it (imagine that). And they sold a million of them. If driving 35 miles saves roughly 0.7 gallons of gas, then that's 700,000 gallons of gas saved per day nationwide. Obviously those numbers are very general and there are many variables, it's just to illustrate the point.

And another problem with installing bigger batteries is that the average person drives only about 25 miles per day, so in terms of nationwide gas savings, 75 mile range PHEV's are not going to triple the nationwide gas savings compared to 25 mile PHEV's. Sure for an individual it might make a difference once a week, once a month or whatever. And someone with a long daily commute or who often drives longer distances would benefit. But again I am talking about nationwide averages. The problem is that going from 25 miles to 75 mile range in a PHEV roughly triples the battery price, reduces functional space, and adds weight. Thus there will be much lower sales. I am talking about right now, yes when battery prices and sizes come down then car makers can add range. But they also could instead lower the price and add functionality, which could increase PHEV sales even more. It's not a simple answer to this, I think car makers will evolve their strategies as this all plays out in the market.
 

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Only about 40,000 Clarity were produced, so I'm not sure if it would be worth their while to produce a higher capacity replacement battery for the Clarity.

It would be interesting if the Clarity would even recognize the higher capacity. Would it recalibrate to the higher Ah capacity, and then automatically adjust 100% SOC to that level? And also adjust the buffers? I.e. 100% displayed SOC is only about 90% of actual capacity to protect the battery from damage that occurs from charging to maximum capacity. What we don't know if that is a dynamic setting, i.e. as battery capacity degrades over time we don't know if the buffers are automatically lowered. If it's dynamic then maybe it would adjust upwards.

Anyway it's nice to dream, but currently the Clarity is nearly tied with the Volt as being the PHEV with the highest EV range, which is pretty remarkable considering how large and comfortable the car is. By the time battery technology improves and costs come down I suspect that there will be several new PHEV's and EV's that we will all have our eyes on.
That is interesting. Only 40,000 Clarity PHEV, or that includes BEV and Fuel cell? I still believe Honda will have to take care of the PHEV If one day I have to change my battery for what ever reason. If technology advances which I don’t doubt, Honda will be able to make smaller battery with higher capacity. No that this one is not enough, but…..why not?
 

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Honda will be able to make smaller battery with higher capacity. No that this one is not enough, but…..why not?
Honda is already able to make a smaller battery - but they are not making a plug in of any kind (PHEV or BEV) at this point. But they won't design, test and support one for a small subset of a small volume vehicle. There isn't a financial motivation for them to do so.

Even their next EV is going to be essentially a rebadged GM model "developed in partnership and using GMs Ultium batteries and platform".

There are custom shops that would be glad to fit bigger batteries in a Clarity, but the cost per mile of range would be silly.
 

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Honda is already able to make a smaller battery - but they are not making a plug in of any kind (PHEV or BEV) at this point. But they won't design, test and support one for a small subset of a small volume vehicle. There isn't a financial motivation for them to do so.

Even their next EV is going to be essentially a rebadged GM model "developed in partnership and using GMs Ultium batteries and platform".

There are custom shops that would be glad to fit bigger batteries in a Clarity, but the cost per mile of range would be silly.
Obviously the replacement of the battery is more complicated than I expected. Thank you for your patience.
 

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I still believe Honda will have to take care of the PHEV If one day I have to change my battery for what ever reason.
Any Clarity sold in 2021 has a ten year warranty on the battery (depending on the state) so Honda is required to make batteries available at least until then. After that my guess is that Honda will continue to provide them for some period of time. But likely by then there will also be refurbished batteries available from third party companies at a much lower price, similar to what happened with Prius. I don't foresee very many people with a ten year old car paying Honda prices for a new battery if they can get a refurb for much less.

That is interesting. Only 40,000 Clarity PHEV, or that includes BEV and Fuel cell?
Honda doesn't seem to break down their sales figures by type, my guess is that EV and FCV is less than about 5,000 of that total.
 

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Any Clarity sold in 2021 has a ten year warranty on the battery (depending on the state) so Honda is required to make batteries available at least until then. After that my guess is that Honda will continue to provide them for some period of time. But likely by then there will also be refurbished batteries available from third party companies at a much lower price, similar to what happened with Prius. I don't foresee very many people with a ten year old car paying Honda prices for a new battery if they can get a refurb for much less.


Honda doesn't seem to break down their sales figures by type, my guess is that EV and FCV is less than about 5,000 of that total.
Thank you. We are in a interesting situation.
 
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