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Comments from the other side of the tracks!

Hi there Clarity people, and a Happy New Year to you all from Ottawa, Canada.

I hesitate to raise my voice in your discussions as I am not a Clarity owner (I was very interested in the idea a couple of years ago, but encountered such a negative attitude to my enquiries from the local Honda dealer that I decided to look elsewhere instead) but in mid-2018 we bought a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV, and I think that some of my experiences with it might be of interest to you. It is a fairly long post as it addresses many aspects of PHEV battery usage.

There are a lot of discussion points that Outlander owners would share with Clarity owners; eg: how much battery degradation is normal? Is the manufacturer/dealer being straight with us? How can I double check the status of my battery? How representative is the indicated range on the ‘guess-o-meter’?

Outlander compared to Clarity
The Outlander battery is smaller than the Clarity one. Our model is a 12kWh battery whereas the Clarity is, I believe, 17kWh. When we bought the Outlander initially a full charge would offer around 44-48km whereas I think a Clarity starts life with 75km or so. Of course the range drops during winter, but when warmer weather returned it did not improve back to the original levels, even accounting for variations in driving style, type of journey etc. We mostly charge using a 110V wall charger at 12A, which gets us to full overnight (cheapest electricity rates). Over the 1st year, tracking gas purchased vs kms driven/electricity used, we saved about $2000 on gas and only added about $280 to our electricity bills (compared to similar annual usage the previous year).

Measuring battery capacity
A few months into our ownership I found a way to measure the battery capacity, without having to ask the dealership. Using a Vgate OBD adapter in conjunction with an (free) Outlander-specific app called the ‘Watchdog’(PHEV Watchdog Android monitoring App ), it is easy to get readings of capacity (in either % or Ah) as well as variations in voltage across individual cells and other useful parameters. Although originally for Outlander owners, the app can now be used for Kia and Hyundai EVs as well. I notice from post #6 in this forum that Clarity owners can now also monitor their own battery status with a similar device.

Dealer engagement
Having actual battery values (rather than guess-o-meter ranges) helped to quantify discussions with the dealership, and moved us away from the ‘it’s just the way you are driving’ arguments. In the owner’s maintenance handbook Mitsubishi specifies very little routine maintenance in regard to battery, but they do recommend a ‘cell smoothing’ operation at 24,000km intervals.
Our first instance of that was done at another Mitsubishi dealership in East of Ottawa, but actually with hindsight nothing was done, despite a $250 charge. About 8000km later our regular Mitsubishi dealer (West of Ottawa) did a complimentary ‘cell smoothing’. This involves delivering the car totally discharged and leaving it with them overnight. Result: jumped from 83.7% efficiency to 98.9%. This translated into EV ranges of 50-54km – more than when new. Also the dealership reports showed capacity measurements in Ah that correlated with my home measurements. Overall the data showed a declining trend of capacity that was initially heading towards less than 75% within 3.5 years, but ‘cell-smoothing’ restored the trend to a higher capacity. There is still a steady downward trend but with the periodic maintenance procedures, more kms of range are maintained. Generally speaking I feel that the level of PHEV knowledge at our nearest dealership is pretty good. Not the case with the other dealership I tried.

Published data on EV degradation collected from fleet vehicles
It is interesting to compare our own experiences with data published at the geotabs webpage, ( Electric Vehicle Battery Degradation Tool | Geotab ) which has been collected across fleets of EV and PHEV vehicles. These data suggest that Mitsubishi’s battery technology degrades more rapidly than some other makes. Comparing manufacturers using this tool, I see that in some cases, different vehicles by the same manufacturer present widely differing aging characteristics. (eg Kia Soul appears to sustain high capacity much better than Kia Niro). The Geotabs compilation shows no data for Honda EVs. I notice (from this forum) that Clarity owners are creating a collective summary of battery data, and it will be interesting to see how that compares with e.g: the geotabs data on other EV batteries.

Discussions with Mistubishi
There is a major question among Mitsubishi owners on facebook groups etc; as to whether the degradation seen is an actual loss of power by the battery or is it induced by software in the battery management system (BMS)? Questions to Mitsubishi Canada (both directly or through the dealership) have resulted in very little explanation of the effect. Some Mitsubishi owners have found ‘home-built’ ways to induce a capacity improvement (similar to cell-smoothing effect) by disconnecting the 12v control battery for a while, perhaps causing the BMS to forget some of its protective data. Whether or not this benefit endures is not clear. I have not tried this measure – there are some risks involved.

Buffer zones
I notice discussion in the Clarity forum about the upper and lower buffer zones. We always charge to max allowable, knowing that there is an additional 2Ah of capacity above that, which we do not access. As I understand it, when we see zero electric range on the dashboard, there is actually a further 25% or so of protected charge still held in the battery.

Warranty questions
What defines the end of battery life? Before we bought the car the sales agent forecast that by end of battery warranty (10 years or 160,000km) the battery might lose 15-20% of its capacity. It seems from your forum that Honda explicitly state a limit for acceptable battery life. In Canada Mitsubishi seem to be more vague. Our dealer ‘thinks the lower cutoff maybe 70%’ . In the UK I think they have stated a lower limit of 70%, and at least one Outlander blogger in Australia reported getting his battery replaced under warranty, well before the end of car life. Some Mitsubishi owners in other countries have complained that when they took their cars with low battery capacity to the dealer shortly before expiry of the battery warranty, the dealer performed a ‘procedure’ which restored just enough capacity for them to deny a replacement until the warranty had expired.

During COVID:
Interesting observation: in the first year of COVID, capacity measurements on our Outlander continued to fall off at the same rate as a function of time, even though distances driven were much less than in the previous year. This seems to possibly support the view that the capacity reduction is a function ‘built-in’ to the software of the BMS rather than being usage-dependent.

Bottom line – we love driving our Outlander and saving gas/the planet to some extent, but we have to acknowledge that understanding of PHEVs is still in its infancy. In terms of expectations and limitations regarding the crucial component of traction battery life and especially warranty coverage, we would appreciate more ‘clarity’ from our manufacturer!
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 · (Edited)
There is a major question among Mitsubishi owners on facebook groups etc; as to whether the degradation seen is an actual loss of power by the battery or is it induced by software in the battery management system (BMS)?
Some interesting speculations. But that's about all we can do really is speculate, in the absence of information from the manufacturers, or meaningful EV range data from owners.

The only meaningful and accurate measurement of EV range is by using the odometer to calculate the number of actual miles from full charge to empty, with no HV usage during the test. And then to track this information for repeatable routes. And do this multiple times per year for each route, and include temperature or at least the date in the tracking. And traffic conditions anytime traffic causes a reduction of speed. This allows comparisons of the same route/temperature/traffic combinations over time, to see if EV range is decreasing and if so by how much. Unfortunately almost no one does this, but I don't blame them. People only monitor their guess-o-meter. Again I don't blame them, that's so much easier than tracking actual EV miles. But that means we really don't have any meaningful data about actual EV miles from owners. Some people say they have randomly compared the guess-o-meter to actual miles and that it was close, but that is not always true even for the same car as the guess-o-meter is greatly influenced by recent past drives, so it is not a good indicator of actual EV miles. Whenever I have checked my guess-o-meter it is usually off by several miles compared to actual EV range. My guess-o-meter has sometimes read as high as 60 miles, but I have never gone more than 50 actual miles in EV.

Well I shouldn't say no one tracks actual EV miles, a very small number of people do but it's a rare exception. And I don't know if they track actual EV miles for repeatable routes at different times of the year, and include driving conditions in their log. I actually do this but not through formal tracking. The church that I go to is 37 miles away so that is a 74 mile round trip that I do once a week, the exact same route, it's a nice Sunday drive and traffic is always light. The only difference is temperature based on time of year. Half of the drive is freeway at 70 mph, the other half is surface streets at 45 mph. Normally I switch to HV on the outbound route on the freeway, which disqualifies those drives as EV range tests. But sometimes I keep it in EV all the way until it runs out as a way to test my range. I have done this test many times on this exact same route, at different times of the year, for the past three years. During mild weather I can go 50 miles before I reach 0 EV miles which occurs during the return trip. In the heat of summer I can go about 45 miles before I run out. During winter about 40 miles, sometimes less if it's really cold. The good news is I still get close to those distances after nearly three years and 20,000 miles.

The only other accurate measurement is battery capacity, although it's a bit of a black box since we don't know how it is calculated. Most of our information for the Clarity battery capacity measurement comes from a single document that was really intended for dealers, Honda Service Bulletin 17-093, "PDI and New Model Service Information". This thirteen page document describes with diagrams and photos all of the procedures for checking out a new vehicle. On the very last page of the document it describes how to check the battery capacity, which is pretty simple, they just plug their computer into the OBD-II port, then in their i-HDS diagnostic software go to the page for Electric Powertrain, and on that page look for Battery Pack Capacity. They even have a screenshot of that page so that the technician knows what to look for.

We know from other sources that the reading for a new battery should be 55 Ah. The PDI document doesn't mention that, it only says that if the battery capacity is 36.6 Ah or less that the battery is eligible for warranty replacement. 36.6 is exactly a 33% reduction from 55. So apparently the battery capacity measurement has some level of accuracy since Honda uses it for warranty replacement purposes. Of course batteries are also replaced under warranty if they have problems or defects that trigger DTC codes, which can occur for any battery regardless of capacity.

This measurement can also be read using the same Vgate iCar Pro OBD-II Bluetooth reader that you are using on your Outlander. We use Car Scanner software (free version) which shows data for the Clarity including Battery Capacity. At least one person has said they got the same battery capacity reading as their dealer, which would be expected since in both cases it's just reading a stored number from the car's computer, similar to DTC codes.

What we don't know is how or when this number is calculated. Some people have reported that their capacity number doesn't change sometimes for months at a time, and I experienced that myself. But then someone found out that it requires a full charge from 0-100 in one session, uninterrupted. I realized that I rarely do that because I have a time of use electric plan with a super cheap rate for eight hours each night. I use level one so I can't fully charge in eight hours so I just charge what I can during that time. But once I recently found this out about the capacity check I let it charge from 0 to full in one session (about twelve hours) and sure enough the battery capacity updated (i.e. it went down a tiny bit). I haven't tried it again since then so I don't know how consistent this method is.

Dealers don't provide the initial PDI battery capacity reading to the owner, so no one knows what their starting capacity was, other than it's supposed to be 55 Ah. I think mine probably was, because when I first checked my capacity with the Vgate last April after two years of ownership it was 53.64 Ah at 16,000 miles. I recently checked it at 20,000 miles and it is 53.14 Ah which is a 3% loss in capacity. This is consistent with my range tests which as I mentioned have held fairly steady for the nearly three years that I have owned my Clarity. If this rate keeps up I will have a 17% reduction in capacity at 100,000 miles.

Some Mitsubishi owners in other countries have complained that when they took their cars with low battery capacity to the dealer shortly before expiry of the battery warranty, the dealer performed a ‘procedure’ which restored just enough capacity for them to deny a replacement until the warranty had expired.
I read somewhere that some people's Clarity battery capacity reads 55 Ah even though their car is like two years old, which seems to be a false reading. There is speculation that the reading can be reset to 55 Ah somehow. Unplugging the 12V battery doesn't change it. So if it can be reset we don't know how. I don't doubt that dealers can reset it somehow, but that may be inadvertently during some other testing or resetting. If someone gets a reading less than 36.6 Ah using their Vgate they should get a screenshot of it and contact Honda and provide that to them before going to the dealer. I'm sure Honda will refer them to the dealer, which is expected, but then I would not tell the dealer that I am having problems (otherwise they might try things) I would just tell them I want to get a battery capacity measurement, and ask for a printed copy. If their reading also shows less than 36.6 then I would request battery replacement. If they later say "We fixed it" and the measurement is back up to 55 Ah, I would challenge Honda and tell them I have a printout from the dealer at less than 36.6. If they refuse, I guess just drive until the battery is empty, charge to full, and see if the reading goes back down, if it does then call Honda again.

I think the Clarity service bulletin that I saw was obtained from the paid Honda website which contains technical manuals and bulletins. Not sure if something similar is available for Mitsubishi.
 

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There are now TWO versions of the Vgate scanner listed on Amazon. One is WiFi, the other is Bluetooth. The Bluetooth model is $3.00 cheaper, but has fewer positive reviews. -Which one should I buy? My Clarity is at Hare Honda in Avon, Indiana getting the Hybrid battery capacity checked after getting only 25 miles of range starting in about the end of September. It has delivered 30-40 miles of range even in cold weather in the past. I have got as high as 60 miles of range in mild weather. I drive the car with an egg between my foot and the accelerator pedal.
Hare Honda in Avon, Indiana kept my Clarity overnight before calling me the next day and telling me my car was ready. The service advisor that I asked for a print-out of battery capacity was off sick. The advisor that checked me our said "That's all I've got" when I asked for the battery print-out. He presented me with the bill for .29 hours of labor and a charge of $33.95 for updating the software to the latest version. Still only getting EV mileage in the 20's.

RE: Mitsubishi Outlander Battery "Smoothing". -It sounds like you got an EV boost after your dealer performed this operation. I've never heard of it before on this forum. Have any of you Clarity owners heard of this? BTW, my first Clarity service advisor told me this was the first Clarity he had ever written up. :-(
 

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Comments from the other side of the tracks!

Hi there Clarity people, and a Happy New Year to you all from Ottawa, Canada.

I hesitate to raise my voice in your discussions as I am not a Clarity owner (I was very interested in the idea a couple of years ago, but encountered such a negative attitude to my enquiries from the local Honda dealer that I decided to look elsewhere instead) but in mid-2018 we bought a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV, and I think that some of my experiences with it might be of interest to you. It is a fairly long post as it addresses many aspects of PHEV battery usage.

There are a lot of discussion points that Outlander owners would share with Clarity owners; eg: how much battery degradation is normal? Is the manufacturer/dealer being straight with us? How can I double check the status of my battery? How representative is the indicated range on the ‘guess-o-meter’?

Outlander compared to Clarity
The Outlander battery is smaller than the Clarity one. Our model is a 12kWh battery whereas the Clarity is, I believe, 17kWh. When we bought the Outlander initially a full charge would offer around 44-48km whereas I think a Clarity starts life with 75km or so. Of course the range drops during winter, but when warmer weather returned it did not improve back to the original levels, even accounting for variations in driving style, type of journey etc. We mostly charge using a 110V wall charger at 12A, which gets us to full overnight (cheapest electricity rates). Over the 1st year, tracking gas purchased vs kms driven/electricity used, we saved about $2000 on gas and only added about $280 to our electricity bills (compared to similar annual usage the previous year).

Measuring battery capacity
A few months into our ownership I found a way to measure the battery capacity, without having to ask the dealership. Using a Vgate OBD adapter in conjunction with an (free) Outlander-specific app called the ‘Watchdog’(PHEV Watchdog Android monitoring App ), it is easy to get readings of capacity (in either % or Ah) as well as variations in voltage across individual cells and other useful parameters. Although originally for Outlander owners, the app can now be used for Kia and Hyundai EVs as well. I notice from post #6 in this forum that Clarity owners can now also monitor their own battery status with a similar device.

Dealer engagement
Having actual battery values (rather than guess-o-meter ranges) helped to quantify discussions with the dealership, and moved us away from the ‘it’s just the way you are driving’ arguments. In the owner’s maintenance handbook Mitsubishi specifies very little routine maintenance in regard to battery, but they do recommend a ‘cell smoothing’ operation at 24,000km intervals.
Our first instance of that was done at another Mitsubishi dealership in East of Ottawa, but actually with hindsight nothing was done, despite a $250 charge. About 8000km later our regular Mitsubishi dealer (West of Ottawa) did a complimentary ‘cell smoothing’. This involves delivering the car totally discharged and leaving it with them overnight. Result: jumped from 83.7% efficiency to 98.9%. This translated into EV ranges of 50-54km – more than when new. Also the dealership reports showed capacity measurements in Ah that correlated with my home measurements. Overall the data showed a declining trend of capacity that was initially heading towards less than 75% within 3.5 years, but ‘cell-smoothing’ restored the trend to a higher capacity. There is still a steady downward trend but with the periodic maintenance procedures, more kms of range are maintained. Generally speaking I feel that the level of PHEV knowledge at our nearest dealership is pretty good. Not the case with the other dealership I tried.

Published data on EV degradation collected from fleet vehicles
It is interesting to compare our own experiences with data published at the geotabs webpage, ( Electric Vehicle Battery Degradation Tool | Geotab ) which has been collected across fleets of EV and PHEV vehicles. These data suggest that Mitsubishi’s battery technology degrades more rapidly than some other makes. Comparing manufacturers using this tool, I see that in some cases, different vehicles by the same manufacturer present widely differing aging characteristics. (eg Kia Soul appears to sustain high capacity much better than Kia Niro). The Geotabs compilation shows no data for Honda EVs. I notice (from this forum) that Clarity owners are creating a collective summary of battery data, and it will be interesting to see how that compares with e.g: the geotabs data on other EV batteries.

Discussions with Mistubishi
There is a major question among Mitsubishi owners on facebook groups etc; as to whether the degradation seen is an actual loss of power by the battery or is it induced by software in the battery management system (BMS)? Questions to Mitsubishi Canada (both directly or through the dealership) have resulted in very little explanation of the effect. Some Mitsubishi owners have found ‘home-built’ ways to induce a capacity improvement (similar to cell-smoothing effect) by disconnecting the 12v control battery for a while, perhaps causing the BMS to forget some of its protective data. Whether or not this benefit endures is not clear. I have not tried this measure – there are some risks involved.

Buffer zones
I notice discussion in the Clarity forum about the upper and lower buffer zones. We always charge to max allowable, knowing that there is an additional 2Ah of capacity above that, which we do not access. As I understand it, when we see zero electric range on the dashboard, there is actually a further 25% or so of protected charge still held in the battery.

Warranty questions
What defines the end of battery life? Before we bought the car the sales agent forecast that by end of battery warranty (10 years or 160,000km) the battery might lose 15-20% of its capacity. It seems from your forum that Honda explicitly state a limit for acceptable battery life. In Canada Mitsubishi seem to be more vague. Our dealer ‘thinks the lower cutoff maybe 70%’ . In the UK I think they have stated a lower limit of 70%, and at least one Outlander blogger in Australia reported getting his battery replaced under warranty, well before the end of car life. Some Mitsubishi owners in other countries have complained that when they took their cars with low battery capacity to the dealer shortly before expiry of the battery warranty, the dealer performed a ‘procedure’ which restored just enough capacity for them to deny a replacement until the warranty had expired.

During COVID:
Interesting observation: in the first year of COVID, capacity measurements on our Outlander continued to fall off at the same rate as a function of time, even though distances driven were much less than in the previous year. This seems to possibly support the view that the capacity reduction is a function ‘built-in’ to the software of the BMS rather than being usage-dependent.

Bottom line – we love driving our Outlander and saving gas/the planet to some extent, but we have to acknowledge that understanding of PHEVs is still in its infancy. In terms of expectations and limitations regarding the crucial component of traction battery life and especially warranty coverage, we would appreciate more ‘clarity’ from our manufacturer!
Thanks for that info!

The thing that jumped out at me about the Mitsubishi, is that it appears that it doesn't have an effective mechanism within it's BMS to do periodic cell balancing. Instead, they've baked in a requirement to get it done within their service bay. Not cool, when the solution to the "problem" is to provide an adequate BMS, like pretty much everybody else seems to be doing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
The thing that jumped out at me about the Mitsubishi, is that it appears that it doesn't have an effective mechanism within it's BMS to do periodic cell balancing. Instead, they've baked in a requirement to get it done within their service bay. Not cool, when the solution to the "problem" is to provide an adequate BMS, like pretty much everybody else seems to be doing.
One theory I have heard is that Clarity does cell balancing whenever charging to full. This could explain why it sometimes seems to take a little longer to go from 99 to 100%. Although I have never timed it, so maybe it just seems longer because I am staring at it waiting for it to finish charging!

This could also at least partially explain why the owners manual makes the otherwise perplexing statement, "To help extend the lifespan of the battery, it is recommended that you fully charge the battery each time prior to driving.". Which goes against conventional wisdom with lithium batteries in general that not charging to full every time can in some cases help extend battery life.

Maybe Honda is promoting one extreme as being better than the other extreme. In other words if you never charge to full, then whatever benefits you might get from avoiding charging to full will be more than offset by the negative effects of the cells never getting balanced.

Seems like the ideal might be somewhere in the middle, especially if cell balancing only needs to be done say once a week or every 100 hours of EV usage, or whatever. In that case the ideal might be to avoid charging to full when it's not needed, but still charge to full at least once a week. But maybe to KISS they just tell everyone to charge to full every time.

I'm not advocating anything, as this is all just theorizing, I'm just thinking about the riddle that Honda gave us with their statement about charging to full every time helping to extending battery life.

(Terminology disclaimer, in the context of this post charging to full means charging to 100% SOC, which in reality is less than the maximum charge that the battery could actually take if it was not limited by the charging software to protect the battery).

(Terminology definition, KISS = Keep it simple, stupid)
 

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One theory I have heard is that Clarity does cell balancing whenever charging to full. This could explain why it sometimes seems to take a little longer to go from 99 to 100%. Although I have never timed it, so maybe it just seems longer because I am staring at it waiting for it to finish charging!

This could also at least partially explain why the owners manual makes the otherwise perplexing statement, "To help extend the lifespan of the battery, it is recommended that you fully charge the battery each time prior to driving.". Which goes against conventional wisdom with lithium batteries in general that not charging to full every time can in some cases help extend battery life.

Maybe Honda is promoting one extreme as being better than the other extreme. In other words if you never charge to full, then whatever benefits you might get from avoiding charging to full will be more than offset by the negative effects of the cells never getting balanced.

Seems like the ideal might be somewhere in the middle, especially if cell balancing only needs to be done say once a week or every 100 hours of EV usage, or whatever. In that case the ideal might be to avoid charging to full when it's not needed, but still charge to full at least once a week. But maybe to KISS they just tell everyone to charge to full every time.

I'm not advocating anything, as this is all just theorizing, I'm just thinking about the riddle that Honda gave us with their statement about charging to full every time helping to extending battery life.

(Terminology disclaimer, in the context of this post charging to full means charging to 100% SOC, which in reality is less than the maximum charge that the battery could actually take if it was not limited by the charging software to protect the battery).

(Terminology definition, KISS = Keep it simple, stupid)
This is a constant discussion over at the ChevyBolt forum, making the very same points you have. However, recently, such discussions have taken a back seat to the battery recall, which seems to be progressing nicely.
 

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I got my Vgate Car Scanner from Amazon today. Plugged it in, connected, no problem. My 2018 Clarity with 23,000 miles on it has a battery capacity of 47.18. Checked in the garage on January 4th with temperature reading 50° in the garage. As stated above, I am getting 25-30 EV miles per full charge, checked on the odometer.
 

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I agree that Mitsubishi making the owners pay for cell balancing to recover lost battery capacity is unfair - to my mind it should be a warrantied-operation. As far as I can see other PHEV makers do not seem to require this. Is it because their batteries self-manage and do the balancing 'behind the scenes', or is it that the battery chemistries used by other makers are more stable and do not degrade as fast?
Using data from the Clarity HV Battery Analysis page (HV Battery Analysis) I plotted % state of charge versus age in months for Clarity batteries, and I see an average of roughly 15% drop over 4.5 years. This seems only slightly worse than the average for all cars using the tool at the Geotab site (Electric Vehicle Battery Degradation Tool | Geotab) . It certainly seems better than Mitsubishi results.
Is this because the battery management software is better or because the batteries themselves are better? Hard to know. Searching around major suppliers of lithium batteries (List of electric-vehicle-battery manufacturers - Wikipedia) , it seems that Mitsubishi use GSYuasa exclusively, whereas (The Top 10 EV Battery Makers) Honda maybe using CATL (China).
I also notice that some manufacturers 'hold back' more of the battery capacity from the user, in terms of buffer zones at the fully charged or fully discharged extremes. So degradation could be occurring, but it might be concealed within the buffer zone. For example the Outlander full charge represents 38Ah whereas the battery capacity is actually 40Ah, so 2Ah are held as a safe zone (perhaps to absorb any energy generated by regenerative braking with an already full battery).
I think it is great that Clarity owners are starting to collect their own data on how battery capacity evolves (degrades!) over time.
Many Outlander owners are now discussing whether their next purchase would be eg a RAV4 Prime (but very long delivery times!) or the new 2023 Outlander, promised for end of this year, with a 20kWh battery. Apparently Honda may also bring out a new 'Breeze' PHEV, but specs on that seem vague at this stage, and the only data I have seen is on models sold in China.
 

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I got my Vgate Car Scanner from Amazon today. Plugged it in, connected, no problem. My 2018 Clarity with 23,000 miles on it has a battery capacity of 47.18. Checked in the garage on January 4th with temperature reading 50° in the garage. As stated above, I am getting 25-30 EV miles per full charge, checked on the odometer.
Apparently there are several Vgat OBD scanners. Which one did you get?
Thanks.
 

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Apparently there are several Vgat OBD scanners. Which one did you get?
Thanks.
I got the iCAR PRO BLE4.0. However, I am thinking of sending it back as it will not stay connected in either Bluetooth or WiFi mode. It connects all right when in the garage, but when I start driving, it disconnects and will not reconnect.
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 · (Edited)
I got the iCAR PRO BLE4.0. However, I am thinking of sending it back as it will not stay connected in either Bluetooth or WiFi mode.
The BLE4.0 is Bluetooth only according to the Vgate website. And as far as I can tell the Wi-Fi version does not do Bluetooth. Are you sure you were receiving data when you connected with Bluetooth? I'm thinking maybe they sent you the Wi-Fi version by mistake. And maybe the Wi-Fi version also works with Bluetooth even though it doesn't say so in the listing. Also Vgate has warned that there are counterfeits out there, although since you got yours on Amazon that's less likely. Vgate says they sell only on Amazon and their own website. But even on Amazon, if you selected a "Sold by" vendor that was someone other than Vgate then it becomes more possible.

Of course it could simply be that you got a defective item.
 

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The BLE4.0 is Bluetooth only according to the Vgate website. And as far as I can tell the Wi-Fi version does not do Bluetooth. Are you sure you were receiving data when you connected with Bluetooth? I'm thinking maybe they sent you the Wi-Fi version by mistake. And maybe the Wi-Fi version also works with Bluetooth even though it doesn't say so in the listing. Also Vgate has warned that there are counterfeits out there, although since you got yours on Amazon that's less likely. Vgate says they sell only on Amazon and their own website. But even on Amazon, if you selected a "Sold by" vendor that was someone other than Vgate then it becomes more possible.

Of course it could simply be that you got a defective item.
Thanks for commenting.
I had read all the comments on this thread, and ordered from Amazon, not a re-seller for the reasons you mention. The device does connect and record data and gives me my battery SOC and capacity when I'm sitting still in the garage (temp goes up, tachometer works, mileage indicated), but when I start driving, it disconnects and will not re-connect until I shut the motor off, and connect while sitting still, essentially requiring a reboot to reconnect. I know this is not right.
 

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Thanks for commenting.
I had read all the comments on this thread, and ordered from Amazon, not a re-seller for the reasons you mention. The device does connect and record data and gives me my battery SOC and capacity when I'm sitting still in the garage (temp goes up, tachometer works, mileage indicated), but when I start driving, it disconnects and will not re-connect until I shut the motor off, and connect while sitting still, essentially requiring a reboot to reconnect. I know this is not right.
P.S. The owners manual in the device indicated that it could connect with either BT or WiFi, but I have not been able to connect at all via WiFi. I'm going to reconnect before driving to church this morning, and if it doesn't remain connected in the 7 mile drive, it's going back Monday morning.
 

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P.S. The owners manual in the device indicated that it could connect with either BT or WiFi, but I have not been able to connect at all via WiFi. I'm going to reconnect before driving to church this morning, and if it doesn't remain connected in the 7 mile drive, it's going back Monday morning.
Have you tried contacting their tech support?
 
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