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JoeJoe 08-22-2020 08:43 PM

Height of outlet?
 
Just picked up a 2018 and am having a 14-50 outlet installed soon. Trying to figure out where and how high up on the wall of the carport I wanted it. Initially I will be using it with a portable 16 amp charger but may get a bigger one down the road. I was thinking about 3' up and in the center of the 1 car carport. My wife drives in but I back in. Any suggestions/advise?

obermd 08-23-2020 12:25 PM

Put the outlet so your EVSE is sitting at eye level. You're going to have to provide mounting points for the EVSE in any case so why not make it convenient for you to use? Also, I would use a red or orange outlet to make it obvious it's not a 120V outlet for someone who doesn't recognize the receptacle. You might also want to label it with voltage and rated amperage.

The 220V 20amp outlet I have in my garage is actually a little above eye level. The EVSE is mounted just below eye level.

JoeJoe 08-23-2020 10:53 PM

Thank you for the info. The plug will be a 14-50 so any cable that hooks into it will have a conversion cable if needed. I will swap breakers as appropriate. Initially I will have a 20 amp 240 breaker.

Any way you can provide a picture of how it looks?

2002 08-23-2020 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeJoe (Post 8873)
am having a 14-50 outlet installed soon.......Initially I will be using it with a portable 16 amp charger but may get a bigger one down the road.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeJoe (Post 8883)
The plug will be a 14-50 so any cable that hooks into it will have a conversion cable if needed. I will swap breakers as appropriate. Initially I will have a 20 amp 240 breaker.

If I am following this correctly you have not purchased an EVSE yet, you have just decided that you want to get a 16 amp one. Which is fine, that is more than adequate for Clarity.

Secondly, you want to install a 14-50 outlet which I'm guessing is for future planning in case you later get a full BEV. That's fine also, 14-50 is a popular outlet size that is adequate for most BEV's and in fact is pretty much the maximum that can practically be installed in a residence.

But what is not clear is that it sounds like you are planning to install a 20 amp circuit but using an outlet designed for 50 amp? This would not meet code, the outlet should match the circuit. If you are experienced with electrical circuits and feel you can do it safely that's up to you but I am surprised that an electrician would be willing to do that installation for you. If you really want a 14-50 outlet why don't you just install a 50 amp circuit to go with it? Then you can purchase a 16 amp EVSE that comes with a 14-50 plug and just plug it right in, no adapters needed, and everything will be up to code. Buying 240V adapters on Amazon or eBay is rolling the dice as there is no way to know the quality. Some EVSE brands come with adapters for different size outlets, that is better because at least you know that the adapters that come with it were designed for that particular EVSE and you can get at least some idea of the reputation of the company. But ideally you should avoid adapters at all if possible, which is not that hard to do as many companies make EVSE's that can be ordered with different sizes of plugs. One example is Megear which has pretty good ratings on Amazon and they have a 16 amp EVSE that comes with a 14-50 plug for $200.

JoeJoe 08-24-2020 01:01 AM

Sorry for the confusion. The 14-50 will be wired with a 6-3 copper run from the 200 amp panel. Distance is 10-15ft. Reason for using a 20 amp breaker, instead of a 40-50, is to protect the wire of the evse. We have not ordered an evse but will soon after we save up a bit more. If it doesn’t use a 14-50 we have conversion cables already that I use for work. They are well made. The 14-50 to 6-20, for example, uses 8-3 600v wire.

DucRider 08-24-2020 04:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeJoe (Post 8891)
Sorry for the confusion. The 14-50 will be wired with a 6-3 copper run from the 200 amp panel. Distance is 10-15ft. Reason for using a 20 amp breaker, instead of a 40-50, is to protect the wire of the evse. We have not ordered an evse but will soon after we save up a bit more. If it doesnít use a 14-50 we have conversion cables already that I use for work. They are well made. The 14-50 to 6-20, for example, uses 8-3 600v wire.

Putting a 14-50 on a 20A circuit does not meet code, no matter the wire gauge.

In order to meet code, you could conceivably put a 20A receptacle on the 6 gauge (if you can find one that will accept that heavy of a wire), and swap it for a 14-50 down the road. Not sure what you mean by protecting the wire of the EVSE. From overload/overheating? A short in the EVSE itself? Anything that would damage the wire of the EVSE would be result of the EVSE failing catastrophically.

A conscientious electrician would never install the circuit you are describing, and it would not pass inspection.

There is a 30% tax credit for the EVSE and installation costs that expires at the end of the year if that helps your budget

Trolle 08-24-2020 09:37 AM

Just to make sure if the circuit is otherwise rated for 50A both wire and receptacle, is it not code to undersize the breaker?
I am not sure if it compares but it was my understanding it is not against code to use a 15A breaker for regular outlets in house wiring feed by 12 gauge wires that actually could take a 20A breaker?

JoeJoe 08-24-2020 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DucRider (Post 8893)
Putting a 14-50 on a 20A circuit does not meet code, no matter the wire gauge.

In order to meet code, you could conceivably put a 20A receptacle on the 6 gauge (if you can find one that will accept that heavy of a wire), and swap it for a 14-50 down the road. Not sure what you mean by protecting the wire of the EVSE. From overload/overheating? A short in the EVSE itself? Anything that would damage the wire of the EVSE would be result of the EVSE failing catastrophically.

A conscientious electrician would never install the circuit you are describing, and it would not pass inspection.

There is a 30% tax credit for the EVSE and installation costs that expires at the end of the year if that helps your budget

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2002 (Post 8897)
Oh, okay. Don't really hear of people doing that but I guess in theory it's safer. Normally you think of the purpose of a circuit breaker as protecting the house wiring and receptacles from a device or devices overloading the circuit beyond its capacity, not protecting the devices plugged into the circuit (unlike GFCI which is designed for that purpose). I mean we plug in 18 gauge lamp cord into 15 amp circuits, which is kind of the same thing. Although I understand with 50 amps the power level is higher, but then again the EVSE does not use lamp cord it is using much higher gauge wiring, so it probably becomes relatively the same situation. Obviously if the 20 amp circuit breaker is still in there when you sell the house you will need to install a 50 amp breaker otherwise the next owner will plug in their EV and wonder why the circuit breaker keeps tripping, but I'm sure you already plan to do that. Anyway thanks for clearing up what you are doing.

Having a smaller breaker to protect the appliance isn’t uncommon with larger appliances on a single run. Your air conditioner is a good example. Older air conditioners used a bunch of energy and had large wires, the newer ones us less energy and specifically spec the max sized breaker for the circuit it is running. Most cases this is less than the older unit. No electrician will run a smaller wire, you just reduce the breaker size.

I do understand that my approach is a bit different but last thing I want is for a cut or something else to happen with the wire and it cause a dangerous situation. Small peace of mind. The panel is easily accessed so swapping out the breaker isn’t a concern.

So far obermd said their outlet is at eye level. Anyone else suggest this or anything different?

Trolle 08-24-2020 12:04 PM

I would think it depends on your final installation type charger. For my installation I mounted the outlet about 3 feet up just to avoid snow or rain splashing on the outlet.
Anywhere between 3 feet and 5 feet seems reasonable to me.

DucRider 08-24-2020 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeJoe (Post 8899)
Having a smaller breaker to protect the appliance isnít uncommon with larger appliances on a single run. Your air conditioner is a good example. Older air conditioners used a bunch of energy and had large wires, the newer ones us less energy and specifically spec the max sized breaker for the circuit it is running. Most cases this is less than the older unit. No electrician will run a smaller wire, you just reduce the breaker size.

I do understand that my approach is a bit different but last thing I want is for a cut or something else to happen with the wire and it cause a dangerous situation. Small peace of mind. The panel is easily accessed so swapping out the breaker isnít a concern.

So far obermd said their outlet is at eye level. Anyone else suggest this or anything different?

A hard wired air conditioner is different than a receptacle, and in that case larger wire on a smaller breaker is permitted. The breaker and receptacle must be sized together, with a minimum wire gauge specified to handle the load.
https://i.imgur.com/ndL1ANH.png?1

And what exactly is a smaller breaker is going to protect if the EVSE wire is cut or damaged? Would a smaller breaker better protect a vacuum cleaner if the cord was cut? How about a desk lamp?

As to the height, if you will be installing an EVSE in the future, 42" is a good height. Most plug in type EVSE's will have a 12" cord originating from the bottom of the unit, and this puts the unit itself at eye level:
https://i.imgur.com/hl9NArI.png?1

The only code requirement for height is at least 18" above floor level (24" above grade for outdoor installations)


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