Level 2 Charging For $20 Dollars !!! - Page 14 - 2018 Honda Clarity Forum
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post #131 of 134 (permalink) Old 10-14-2019, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob43 View Post
LOL, you can Jury-Rig "your" adapter any way you like. But I would caution you as to having an exposed wire because it's not safe.

Safety is paramount: Having a small exposed wire with some little connection plug is a bad idea; no matter how you try to justify it....



Rob43
What wire would be exposed? The signal wire would be a separate connection, but no reason to build it as an exposed wire (and it would only be used when charging on 120V). In any case, it is almost certainly a low voltage and low current signal

If "safety is paramount", why use an adapter that could potentially allow 240V to be fed to a device not designed for it? I don't care how you label it. Is labeling the appliance circuits in your kitchen "Load limit 20A" a safe alternative to a circuit breaker? Or telling someone not to plug anything in a bathroom outlet if they are using water anywhere within 6' instead of installing a GFCI?

Give it up and admit there are safer alternatives than the adapter you sell. If that type of adapter was completely safe to use, it could be UL listed and sold thru reputable outlets. There is a reason that tested and approved commercial products have a 240V plug with adapters to make them work on 120V and not the other way around.

Does it work? Yes. Does wiring a 5-15 outlet for 240V work? Yes. Is either of those as safe as replacing the plug on the EVSE with a 240V version? Not even close.

Your weak thermal monitoring argument only has benefit if you are charging without your adapter, and if someone thinks it important enough, that functionality can be retained for 120V charging.

Everyone is free to decide what risks they deem acceptable. I wear eye protection when using power tools. I wear hearing protection in loud environments. Many do not. Just don't claim your adapter to be a safe alternative. It is not.

Gary

2018 Clarity Electric (Vortex Blue)
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post #132 of 134 (permalink) Old 10-14-2019, 09:59 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DucRider View Post
What wire would be exposed? The signal wire would be a separate connection, but no reason to build it as an exposed wire (and it would only be used when charging on 120V). In any case, it is almost certainly a low voltage and low current signal

If "safety is paramount", why use an adapter that could potentially allow 240V to be fed to a device not designed for it? I don't care how you label it. Is labeling the appliance circuits in your kitchen "Load limit 20A" a safe alternative to a circuit breaker? Or telling someone not to plug anything in a bathroom outlet if they are using water anywhere within 6' instead of installing a GFCI?

Give it up and admit there are safer alternatives than the adapter you sell. If that type of adapter was completely safe to use, it could be UL listed and sold thru reputable outlets. There is a reason that tested and approved commercial products have a 240V plug with adapters to make them work on 120V and not the other way around.

Does it work? Yes. Does wiring a 5-15 outlet for 240V work? Yes. Is either of those as safe as replacing the plug on the EVSE with a 240V version? Not even close.

Your weak thermal monitoring argument only has benefit if you are charging without your adapter, and if someone thinks it important enough, that functionality can be retained for 120V charging.

Everyone is free to decide what risks they deem acceptable. I wear eye protection when using power tools. I wear hearing protection in loud environments. Many do not. Just don't claim your adapter to be a safe alternative. It is not.

Honestly, Hacking the adapter they way you're implying is a very poor idea.

I will say it again, do "your" adapter any way you like.

I appreciate the thread bumps....



Rob43

Charge Up In About 5 1/2 Hours Using Your 120v Honda OE EVSE At 240 Volts.
Level 2 Charging Adapters: 10 Gauge / 100% Copper Cord, Most are $49 Shipped.
I Build 240v Conversion Pigtails With Almost Any Plug Needed, PM Me If You Need One.
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post #133 of 134 (permalink) Old 11-13-2019, 08:56 AM
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I beg to differ

OK folks, we are having an ice storm and Iím not going out in it, so this is going to be a long one. Get your coffee and donuts, or beer and pretzels, depending on when you are reading this. After my last post, I was put off and was not going to reply to the snark until I had something to back up what I was talking about. So bear with me.

Uncledadís summation (Post #107 08-16-2019) of the argument is exactly correct in all respects.

DucRiderís reply to Uncledad (Post #110 08-16-2019) is also correct except for his one statement ďyou will virtually never find a 6-15R to plug intoĒ which is only his opinion, and not backed up by hours of searching the internet. He also advocates ďreplac(ing) the 5-15P on the unit with a 6-20PĒ, which Iím certain would VOID the warranty, and as

Rob43 states in Post #111, would remove a safety device which is certainly integrated into the programming of the OE EVSE.

About that time, I bought a Clarity, signed onto this forum, entered the discussion and posted my thoughts and questions. Iím not sure where the testosterone and hypocrisy came from, but it sure took off.

You two start to flame me, and act like you have great authority. This is a forum where we are all learning and discussing ways to do things. Anything that is out of the current wisdom is always fraught with risk, and the sharing on a forum is one way to talk things over. After all, the c/w was that putting a motor into a box kite would not make you a bird, but a couple of bike repairmen took a risk and we all can fly today. So put your testosterone back in your balls, and try to follow someone else with an idea, judging it on its merits, and not by your egos.

As for the hypocrisy, there is nothing either of you has suggested or selling that would satisfy the electrical codes. Regardless of how you are doing it, Rob, you always end up putting 240 through a 120 outlet, just like I am doing.

2002 states in Post #124 ďUsing an adapter doesn't violate code, however wiring a 120V outlet for 240V does.Ē which is true, and I appreciate the caution about someone in the future using it improperly.
ďthe risk can at least be managed to some extent by controlling access to the adapter, having warning labels on it, educating everyone in the household etc.Ē My solution for that is to put the receptacle on the garage rafter with both warning labels and with a modified cover which I can fasten securely. That way I can hang the EVSE next to it and above the driverís side fender. Only an idiot would climb a ladder to use a receptacle when there are a couple of Wiremold strips mounted on the walls in my garage.

Alright, letís start with the issue of Electrical Codes. These codes are developed over many years, and what was considered OK years ago may now be considered DANGEROUS. But while they are codes developed and continuously modified by the trades/industry committees, they are sanctioned (made into law) by politicians. Depending on where one lives, one might be living with a code that is outdated by todayís industry standards. For example, when building my home, I was told by our State Plumbing inspector that the plumbing codes are a combination of some current industry standards (UPC, NSPC, IPC, etc.), and the standards that were developed during Woodrow Wilsonís presidency! There has been a continuing fight among politicians as to which version of the industry standards should be the state standard. I expect that it depends on which plumberís association donates to each politicianís campaign, since that is the way politics works in America.

If you are required to hire a licensed mechanic, plumber, electrician, they will, by law, have to work to the current standards. If you are modifying your own jalopy, you can cut off the catalytic converter and muffler. Your local auto mechanic cannot. In my state, I, as home owner, can do my own plumbing and wiring. Actually the plumbing has to have a more rigorous inspection than the electrical when building new. Anything I do after the meter is my problem. Same with phone and cable after their interfaces.

I have worked with electrical tools since my days in the Air Force as a repair tech. I am fully aware of the dangers of amperage, depending on the voltage. And BTW, I remember watching the parade for MacArthur when he was fired by Truman, so you know how old I am, and why the snark of young people rubs me wrong.

Next, is the issue of MY situation vs Rob43 and DucRider. I donít have a dryer receptacle. I am installing a new outlet at the minimum of amperage for safety sake. According to this forum, the EVSE draws 12 amps (or slightly less) regardless of the voltage. (Makes sense since the car charges twice as fast at 240V compared to 120V - same amperage. Charging batteries faster at higher voltage and amperage is hard on batteries, so it is understandable that Honda gives you the EVSE for the slowest charging. You risk shortening the battery life by using an L2 charger. And BTW, I have no intention of using anything beyond 240V-15A.)

I am hooking the charger up to 15A circuit breakers (80% of 15 is 12) and that makes it the safest I can use. My receptacle is about 25í from the breaker box, so I could use 14/2 cable for this, but because I have a bunch of 12/2, Iím using it (itís overkill, as actually 12/2 is capable of handling 25A - itís listed as good for 20A for safety).

Now, my choice of receptacle is Leviton 5842-I 20 Amp, 125/250 Volt, Receptacle, Commercial Grade, Self Grounding, Dual Voltage <https://www.amazon.com/Leviton-5842-...913759&sr=8-26

You guys found fault with this. FYI, dual voltage receptacles are not made to two different standards because of the two voltages. The whole thing is made to the higher voltage standard. You canít see it on Amazonís website, but one side of this receptacle is linked so that you only need to hook up three wires to it - two hots for 240 and a neutral for the 5-15R, plus ground if you were using it as it is intended. As Iím not using the 6-20R, Iím leaving it dead, having unlinked the two and limiting it to 15A. The EVSE plugs in nicely without modification so I can unplug it and take it while traveling long distances.

But because of the problems with fast charging I mentioned above, I decided to make a modification to my circuit and put in a DPDT switch. (Leviton 1286-I 20-Amp 120/277-Volt Double-Pole AC). Now I can switch between 120 and 240 depending on how fast I need to recharge the car, all without unplugging, and it looks like a normal light switch rather than a toggle switch which my wife would not touch.

Mostly we use the L1 charging overnight, but we have occasionally used the L2, and it works fine. Without the switch, it cost me $14 for the 5842-I-Receptacle. The switch has cost another $30.

I do hope this clarifies the issue from my perspective, and the sun is out so I'm heading out as well. G-
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post #134 of 134 (permalink) Old 11-13-2019, 04:43 PM
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A Much safer alternative than having a 120V receptacle wired for 240V:

Retains the temp sensor and you can add whatever flavor 240V plug you want.
Total Cost: $14.15

I used a 6-20P, and adapters specifically designed for EVSE's are available for about $13
https://smile.amazon.com/DUOSIDA-5-1.../dp/B07QX15Y1G

Parts list:
1' 12/4 SOOW (14/4 would be fine as well)
1 ea 20K Thermistor probe (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07LGMJ7GC)
3 ea crimp style ring terminals
1 ea 3.96mm VH plug
1 ea NEMA 6-20P



Procedure:
1) Open the EVSE. There are 6 plugs that can be drilled out (or drill a small hole and use a corkscrew) that will expose 6 security style torx screws (no special bit required - a small flatblade screwdriver will work). Remove the cover and disconnect the OEM cord (terminal screws, strain relief brackets, thermistor plug)

2) Strip the jacket from both ends of the SOOW as appropriate - your plug will have specs for this and you can match the exposed length on the OEM cord
3) Replace the plug on the thermistor with the 3.96mm VH plug
4) Pull one conductor (and maybe one filler) from the SOOW cord to make room for the probe
5) Thread the probe thru the space left by the conductor/filler (can be easiest if you "follow" the conductor as you pull it)
6) Crimp the ring terminals on the 2 hots and ground
7) Attach 240V plug
8) Feed the new cord into the EVSE and attach (pay attention to get the ground where it was, the 2 hots have no required order)
9) Close up the EVSE

End result is an EVSE that can safely be used on 240V circuit with no need for adapters and no dangerous plugs that violate electrical code. As I've stated before, there is a reason commercial products take this approach, and no reason you can't do this as well.

The EVSE that came with my Clarity Electric was a Panasonic, so if yours is a different brand you may need slightly different supplies. Some people that have done similar mods on theirs (some generations of the Nissan LEAF used the Panasonic) wire in a 20-22K resistor (internally) in place of the thermistor and use 12/3 SOOW. This is functional, but you lose the thermal sensing.

The cost of the cord without the plug is ~$6. If someone wanted to make them up instead of selling adapters, it would be a better option. For those with leased vehicles, the EVSE could easily be returned to stock before turning the car back in. Would it void the EVSE warranty - yes if they knew about it (but then so would any use of it on a 240V circuit).

Gary

2018 Clarity Electric (Vortex Blue)
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