Level 2 Charging For $20 Dollars !!! - Page 13 - 2018 Honda Clarity Forum
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post #121 of 134 (permalink) Old 10-13-2019, 09:49 AM
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If you look at the Leviton-5842-I-Receptacle, it has two different receptacles (NEMA 5-20R & 6-20R, 20 Amp, 125/250 Volt) so I don't need to modify the EVSE plug, nor do I need a pigtail. (If I did, I see that you build a quality adapter.) Unless one of you folks can argue why this doesn't work, I believe this is the simplest solution.



"there's no "Future Proofing"" - don't understand the term. Both of us are retired, don't live a fast pace life anymore, and a 5.5hr charge time would do fine for us.


As for future cars, Rob43, at my age, I'll be lucky to outlast this car. LOL


Thanks for your time and help, G
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post #122 of 134 (permalink) Old 10-13-2019, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by GomerF View Post
If you look at the Leviton-5842-I-Receptacle, it has two different receptacles (NEMA 5-20R & 6-20R, 20 Amp, 125/250 Volt) so I don't need to modify the EVSE plug, nor do I need a pigtail. (If I did, I see that you build a quality adapter.) Unless one of you folks can argue why this doesn't work, I believe this is the simplest solution.



"there's no "Future Proofing"" - don't understand the term. Both of us are retired, don't live a fast pace life anymore, and a 5.5hr charge time would do fine for us.


As for future cars, Rob43, at my age, I'll be lucky to outlast this car. LOL


Thanks for your time and help, G
If you are really talking about wiring the 5-20R portion with 240V, and don't know why it is a bad idea, please refrain from doing any electrical work.

Although Rob disagrees, the only safe way to have a dual voltage EVSE is to replace the plug with a 6-20P (and use an adapter when you need to plug into a 5-15 outlet). This is the ONLY way to ensure a 120V device cannot be plugged into a 240V power source, and hence why devices wanting UL (or other certifications) use this method (Tesla, TurboCord,Nissan, etc.). Yes, you lose the thermal sensor in the OEM EVSE plug, but in my opinion that is a less hazardous compromise.

Gary

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post #123 of 134 (permalink) Old 10-13-2019, 10:59 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DucRider View Post
If you are really talking about wiring the 5-20R portion with 240V, and don't know why it is a bad idea, please refrain from doing any electrical work.

Although Rob disagrees, the only safe way to have a dual voltage EVSE is to replace the plug with a 6-20P (and use an adapter when you need to plug into a 5-15 outlet). This is the ONLY way to ensure a 120V device cannot be plugged into a 240V power source, and hence why devices wanting UL (or other certifications) use this method (Tesla, TurboCord,Nissan, etc.). Yes, you lose the thermal sensor in the OEM EVSE plug, but in my opinion that is a less hazardous compromise.
Gary and I will agree on some things & differ on others...

******************************

1) I COMPLETELY agree that it's a bad idea to install an electrical outlet that's wired for 240 volts, but you then install a 120 volt 5-20R receptacle; don't do this.

2) Common Sense & an Adapter: it's my belief that a 1 to 3 foot long 10 AWG adapter is the best way to go. Since I & everyone that I've built an adapter for lives in "Their" home and not in the public, we all have (common sense) control over how that adapter is used.

3) Cutting the 5-15P plug off the end of a perfectly working Honda OE EVSE unit and then replacing it with a 6-20P plug is a mistake. There is an important temperature* sensor inside the Honda EVSE plug, this temp sensor is there for a reason. Disabling this sensor is a bad idea because it's there for your safety.



Rob43


* The temp sensor is designed to turn off the charging process if to much heat is detected at the plug. (Potential Fire)

Charge Up In About 5 1/2 Hours Using Your 120v Honda OE EVSE At 240 Volts.
Level 2 Charging Adapters: 10 Gauge / 100% Copper Cord, Most are $49 Shipped.
I Build 240v Conversion Pigtails With Almost Any Plug Needed, PM Me If You Need One.

Last edited by Rob43; 10-14-2019 at 01:16 AM.
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post #124 of 134 (permalink) Old 10-14-2019, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by GomerF View Post
If you look at the Leviton-5842-I-Receptacle, it has two different receptacles (NEMA 5-20R & 6-20R, 20 Amp, 125/250 Volt) so I don't need to modify the EVSE plug, nor do I need a pigtail. (If I did, I see that you build a quality adapter.) Unless one of you folks can argue why this doesn't work, I believe this is the simplest solution.

Using an adapter doesn't violate code, however wiring a 120V outlet for 240V does. And for good reason, whereas an adapter has a risk that it might be used improperly, the risk can at least be managed to some extent by controlling access to the adapter, having warning labels on it, educating everyone in the household etc. That still doesn't make it impossible for it to be used improperly but at least the risk can be greatly reduced with proper care. However an outlet is just sitting there waiting to be plugged into. Imagine a service person coming to your home and needing to plug something in, even if you have the outlet clearly labeled they may not notice and plug their tool into what they think is a 120V outlet.

Last edited by 2002; 10-14-2019 at 11:28 AM.
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post #125 of 134 (permalink) Old 10-14-2019, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Rob43 View Post
3) Cutting the 5-15P plug off the end of a perfectly working Honda OE EVSE unit and then replacing it with a 6-20P plug is a mistake. There is an important temperature* sensor inside the Honda EVSE plug, this temp sensor is there for a reason. Disabling this sensor is a bad idea because it's there for your safety.

* The temp sensor is designed to turn off the charging process if to much heat is detected at the plug. (Potential Fire)
Easy enough to retain the same functionality (temp sensor when plugging into a 5-15R) by utilizing the OEM plug in your 240 to 120 adapter. Only requires connecting to sensor wire when plugging in the adapter.


Gary

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post #126 of 134 (permalink) Old 10-14-2019, 05:02 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DucRider View Post
Easy enough to retain the same functionality (temp sensor when plugging into a 5-15R) by utilizing the OEM plug in your 240 to 120 adapter. Only requires connecting to sensor wire when plugging in the adapter.

Gary, you can do that if you like, I'll pass....



Rob43

Charge Up In About 5 1/2 Hours Using Your 120v Honda OE EVSE At 240 Volts.
Level 2 Charging Adapters: 10 Gauge / 100% Copper Cord, Most are $49 Shipped.
I Build 240v Conversion Pigtails With Almost Any Plug Needed, PM Me If You Need One.
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post #127 of 134 (permalink) Old 10-14-2019, 05:21 PM
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Gary, you can do that if you like, I'll pass....



Rob43
The only safe way to use the OEM EVSE on 240V is to replace the plug. The thermal sensor is most likely to be usefuul only when plugging into an old/worn/cheap 5-15R - keeping for use with your 240V adapter is unlikely to provide any benefit as long as your adapter is properly built with quality components.

Advocating a solution that is not safe simply because it is less convenient and more expensive (they would have to ship the EVSE to you for modification) is questionable. Might as well go for the lowest cost and easiest to implement method - wire in a 5-15 outlet with 240V, put a warning label on it and hope for the best. The right way to do things is very often not the easiest.

I have no need to modify my OEM EVSE (I've never even taken it out of the original packaging) since I have a 32A EVSE installed.

Using the OEM EVSE for 240V charging in a way that meets UL listing and other safety standards requires changing the plug. Your argument against that was losing the thermal sensor in the 5-15P, and you can retain that functionality if you feel it is important.

Not using an adapter for 90%+ (likely very close to 100% for most people modding their EVSE) of your charging is by far the safest way to go for a number of reasons.

I'm not trying to put a damper on your side business of making adapters, but feel those looking to use the OEM EVSE for 240V charging should be aware of the safest way to do so. If they, as you do, feel the thermal sensor is important it can be retained as demonstrated above .

Gary

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post #128 of 134 (permalink) Old 10-14-2019, 06:28 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DucRider View Post
The only safe way to use the OEM EVSE on 240V is to replace the plug. The thermal sensor is most likely to be usefuul only when plugging into an old/worn/cheap 5-15R - keeping for use with your 240V adapter is unlikely to provide any benefit as long as your adapter is properly built with quality components.

Advocating a solution that is not safe simply because it is less convenient and more expensive (they would have to ship the EVSE to you for modification) is questionable. Might as well go for the lowest cost and easiest to implement method - wire in a 5-15 outlet with 240V, put a warning label on it and hope for the best. The right way to do things is very often not the easiest.

I have no need to modify my OEM EVSE (I've never even taken it out of the original packaging) since I have a 32A EVSE installed.

Using the OEM EVSE for 240V charging in a way that meets UL listing and other safety standards requires changing the plug. Your argument against that was losing the thermal sensor in the 5-15P, and you can retain that functionality if you feel it is important.

Not using an adapter for 90%+ (likely very close to 100% for most people modding their EVSE) of your charging is by far the safest way to go for a number of reasons.

I'm not trying to put a damper on your side business of making adapters, but feel those looking to use the OEM EVSE for 240V charging should be aware of the safest way to do so. If they, as you do, feel the thermal sensor is important it can be retained as demonstrated above .

Having a Hacked Outside Exposed wire is FOOLISH.

I figured you'd know better.



Rob43

Charge Up In About 5 1/2 Hours Using Your 120v Honda OE EVSE At 240 Volts.
Level 2 Charging Adapters: 10 Gauge / 100% Copper Cord, Most are $49 Shipped.
I Build 240v Conversion Pigtails With Almost Any Plug Needed, PM Me If You Need One.
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post #129 of 134 (permalink) Old 10-14-2019, 08:29 PM
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Having a Hacked Outside Exposed wire is FOOLISH.

I figured you'd know better.



Rob43
It doesn't have to be exposed (there are numerous protection options), and I think it is unnecessary in any case.

With your adapter, the thermal sensor is monitoring a connection (and potential problem point) that does not even exist if you replace the plug, and therefore offers no advantage when charging on 240V (90% of the time? 100%?).

Gary

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post #130 of 134 (permalink) Old 10-14-2019, 08:44 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DucRider View Post
It doesn't have to be exposed (there are numerous protection options), and I think it is unnecessary in any case.

With your adapter, the thermal sensor is monitoring a connection (and potential problem point) that does not even exist if you replace the plug, and therefore offers no advantage when charging on 240V (90% of the time? 100%?).

LOL, you can Jury-Rig "your" adapter any way you like. But I would caution you as to having an exposed wire because it's not safe.

Safety is paramount: Having a small exposed wire with some little connection plug is a bad idea; no matter how you try to justify it....



Rob43

Charge Up In About 5 1/2 Hours Using Your 120v Honda OE EVSE At 240 Volts.
Level 2 Charging Adapters: 10 Gauge / 100% Copper Cord, Most are $49 Shipped.
I Build 240v Conversion Pigtails With Almost Any Plug Needed, PM Me If You Need One.
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