How much HP available in Eco mode - 2018 Honda Clarity Forum
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-08-2019, 12:30 PM Thread Starter
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How much HP available in Eco mode

Hello,

I am new to this forum, just bought a plug in Touring mode, it is being prepped and I will pick up soon.

Alex on Autos, whom I think is the best car review person, said that the battery can only supply 121 hp to the 181 hp electric motor, and that the gas engine/generator has to supply the rest. I can not find any corroborating info.

If this is true, I am a bit disappointed, as I was planning on staying in electric all the time around town, only using gas on trips, and thought I was going to have the performance/acceleration of 181 hp while in electric.
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-08-2019, 12:47 PM
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?There is a lot of debate on how Honda determines the hp of their hybrids. I think you will find you have plenty of acceleration to drive in all electric when commuting around town.
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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-08-2019, 09:19 PM Thread Starter
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Clarity battery only HP

Hello Groves,

Thank you for your advice. I posted that same question on the Facebook owners group, and InsideEV, and I dusted posted this there: Thank you for the thread, it was one more piece of the puzzle. I have not found a definitive answer anywhere, but a few more hours of searching, I turned up bits and pieces, and from that I have deduced that the battery can only put out a certain amount of power, and that power after adjusting for losses, ends up as 121 horsepower that the electric motor can put out. If you want more power to the electric motor, the gas engine has to come on, and the generator connected to it supplies the needed power so that the electric motor is able to put out the 181 hp. I guess I will find out how that sounds when the motor kicks in when I take the car home, I did not notice anything on my test drive, but then I was treating it kindly at the time while talking with the very good salesman that was with me, and the engine may not have kicked in. The motor would not be maxed out anyway, as it only needs enough output so that the generator gives enough to the electric motor so it can produce the 60 Hp (roughly 60% of the gas engines maximum output) more to reach 181 Hp, so may not make much noticeable noise. I can certainly live with the engine coming on once in awhile, it is a great car for the money, in Washington state we just this summer (I think we had it before for awhile, not sure) enacted a law that allows for the first 25,000 of MSRP not to have sales tax, over 2,500 in savings there, and the 7,500 Federal credit, so 10k less than MSRP, an economical move + Honda reliability. I could not have purchased a comparably equipped Hybrid Accord for that, not even close. And this was the last Touring model in the State. Only 5 Standard left in the state, wonder if any more will ever come this way, or even if a 2020 model is going to be produced. I hope so. Honda is great at engineering, but kind of strange is some ways, evidence being their lack of success with Accura, as compare to Toyota and Lexus.
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-08-2019, 11:19 PM
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Don't bother with ECO mode. Not only does it cut the acceleration but it also limits the HVAC's ability to heat and cool the cabin. The overall MPG in non-ECO mode is just as good as ECO mode. If you want to stay in EV mode under all conditions until the battery is exhausted, your only option is the Volt, which GM discontinued. The Clarity will engage the ICE if you floor the car and at very high speeds.
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2018 Honda Clarity Touring PHEV - Forest Green w/Tan interior (wife's car)
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2012 Cruze ECO MT (hail totaled 5/8/17 103,600 miles @42.5 MPG)
2010 Mit Lancer GT MT (traded for ECO @31K miles)
2002 Pont Montana AWD - title to son at college graduation
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-09-2019, 04:59 PM
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Read Your post on the EV forum. Good answers there. Most really like and enjoy this car. Looking forward to you comments and questions after you have driven a little bit.
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-09-2019, 06:44 PM
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I have noticed that when I switch from EV to HV with a cold engine that ICE does not seem to initially contribute much power while it is warming up. Hard to decipher much from the energy flow display but when I watch EV range immediately after switching to HV the EV range continues to drop at the normal rate for the first mile or two, then as ICE warms up it starts to contribute more power and the EV range stabilizes. Makes perfect sense to me and that is how I would expect it to work in that situation.

What I don't know is what happens when you activate ICE by flooring the pedal with a cold engine, since you are quite clearly letting the system know that you need maximum power and you need it now. I mean I have done it (floored the pedal with a cold engine) but I haven't done any 0-60 tests to see if there is less power in that situation as opposed to flooring it while in HV mode, or EV mode after recently switching out of HV. If it seems to have as much 0-60 power with a cold engine as with a warm engine, that could mean that the engineers felt that the engine lubrication is up to the task and that wear would be minimal, especially since it would only be happening occasionally and will be for only a brief period until ICE warms up. Or there is another theory that in those situations the electric motor will go beyond its rated horsepower, again since it would only be for a brief period of time while waiting for ICE to warm up that the electric motor would have to make up the shortfall.

Unfortunately there is some vagueness in the published horsepower ratings so it is not easy to know other than by running 0-60 tests in various situations, which I haven't had a chance to do yet and I haven't heard of anyone else doing it. Or maybe other tests I just used 0-60 as an example.
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-09-2019, 11:28 PM
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The Eco and Sport buttons really don't do much other than control the throttle mapping. Eco also limits the HVAC and Sport allows you to set a regen level and hold it. HV mode maintains the SOC as best it can by using the ICE more frequently and HV "charge" mode runs the ICE constantly to bring an empty battery up to 59% SOC while also powering the vehicle.

"Around town" varies: I live in a nearly totally flat part of my state - there are no hills to climb and the in-town speed limit is 30 mph. To visit the next town, 25 miles distant, I can take either the old 2-lane highway at 55 mph or the Interstate at 70 mph. Using either route with a full charge I can make almost the entire round trip without the ICE engaging.

Honda has created a control algorithm that makes the PHEV use the most efficient power source that it can in the given circumstances. Sometimes it engages the ICE, other times it does not. Sometimes the ICE comes on for no apparent reason - maybe the battery requires additional heat or maybe the cabin does or maybe it just feels like running for a few minutes. We may never know.

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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-12-2019, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerbe View Post
Honda has created a control algorithm that makes the PHEV use the most efficient power source that it can in the given circumstances. Sometimes it engages the ICE, other times it does not. Sometimes the ICE comes on for no apparent reason - maybe the battery requires additional heat or maybe the cabin does or maybe it just feels like running for a few minutes. We may never know.
The ICE needs to run periodically to ensure the seals and pumps are working. Thus, the car will periodically start the ICE, run it through a preprogrammed cycle, and then turns it off.
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2018 Honda Clarity Touring PHEV - Forest Green w/Tan interior (wife's car)
2017 Volt LT - Heather Gray; black bow ties, Charcoal VoltShelf
2012 Cruze ECO MT (hail totaled 5/8/17 103,600 miles @42.5 MPG)
2010 Mit Lancer GT MT (traded for ECO @31K miles)
2002 Pont Montana AWD - title to son at college graduation
1990 Pont Transport (traded for Montana @240K miles)
1986 Fiero GT MT (traded for Transport - needed more seats)
1985 Fiero 2M4 MT (traded for Fiero GT @8K miles)
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-12-2019, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obermd View Post
The ICE needs to run periodically to ensure the seals and pumps are working. Thus, the car will periodically start the ICE, run it through a preprogrammed cycle, and then turns it off.
That should apply only to owners who rarely use ICE due to short work commute, retired, etc. who may go weeks at a time without using ICE. However for those people I have never heard anyone having determined the time interval, i.e. they notice that system mode runs once a week, once every two weeks, etc. I suppose some might say the calculation is more complicated than that, but why would it be? Either ICE is used or it isn't, and if it isn't then it needs to be started every X number of days and I'm not sure why the number of days would be variable. Unless maybe temperature i.e. in cold weather an engine needs to be started more often, but that's just speculation I have never heard that when storing a car you need to start the engine more often in cold weather than warm weather.

I use ICE two or three times a week and as far as I know I have never had system mode occur. For me ICE only starts outside of HV mode when I do hard acceleration or regen with a full battery.
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-12-2019, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2002 View Post
That should apply only to owners who rarely use ICE due to short work commute, retired, etc. who may go weeks at a time without using ICE. However for those people I have never heard anyone having determined the time interval, i.e. they notice that system mode runs once a week, once every two weeks, etc. I suppose some might say the calculation is more complicated than that, but why would it be? Either ICE is used or it isn't, and if it isn't then it needs to be started every X number of days and I'm not sure why the number of days would be variable. Unless maybe temperature i.e. in cold weather an engine needs to be started more often, but that's just speculation I have never heard that when storing a car you need to start the engine more often in cold weather than warm weather.

I use ICE two or three times a week and as far as I know I have never had system mode occur. For me ICE only starts outside of HV mode when I do hard acceleration or regen with a full battery.
I have no idea what Honda uses to trigger ICE engine maintenance. It feels like it's somewhere around once a month and if the cycle doesn't complete it restarts every few days until it completes. I know the Volt is every 6 weeks - documented in the owners manual.
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2018 Honda Clarity Touring PHEV - Forest Green w/Tan interior (wife's car)
2017 Volt LT - Heather Gray; black bow ties, Charcoal VoltShelf
2012 Cruze ECO MT (hail totaled 5/8/17 103,600 miles @42.5 MPG)
2010 Mit Lancer GT MT (traded for ECO @31K miles)
2002 Pont Montana AWD - title to son at college graduation
1990 Pont Transport (traded for Montana @240K miles)
1986 Fiero GT MT (traded for Transport - needed more seats)
1985 Fiero 2M4 MT (traded for Fiero GT @8K miles)
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