Charging and Home Power bill - Page 3 - 2018 Honda Clarity Forum
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post #21 of 27 (permalink) Old 09-26-2019, 10:53 AM
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[quote=hamr4267;5825]
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Originally Posted by Paul92203 View Post
Hello,


Showed my new 2018 Honda Clarity to a friend. He liked and had a few question, with one I could not answer. How much would my home power bill increase?
I've only had the car since February, so I'm not sure. I plug in at home and usually charge for about 8 hours. As of now, I'm saving close to $80 dollars in gas per month. wondering how much of that would be needed to pay for the extra power to charge battery everyday.
I have IID here in California, which is cheaper then Edison and pay $0.1169 KWH.
anyone track power usage from before and after purchasing a Honda Clarity?


thank you[/QUOTE
Im in the Imperial Valley, are you around here? I just bought my clarity on August 28th
$0.1169 KWH is including taxes? If so a quick back of the envelope calculation is that eight hours of charging would be about 9 kWh. If you do that every night it's about 270 kWh per month so that would be about $32.
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post #22 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-31-2020, 10:25 AM
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Level 2 charger provides cheaper electricity?

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Originally Posted by dwheat17 View Post
I didn't even know that it would save money. I had too many 14 hour charges where I got in my car the next morning with not even close to a full charge. Since I drive 50+ miles most days it was a no-brainer.
Just because they're faster, doesn't mean it will be a cheaper charge. Your Clarity battery will take a certain amount of kWh to fully charge, and whether they get there fast or slow, the $/kWh is not going to change. If you're on city water, is it cheaper if it comes out faster? The only thing affecting charging cost is the rate and if your utility offers cheaper rates at certain times of the day. If you go with a Level 2 charger, the costs for purchase of equipment and installation (which could be $1000s) should be added to your Clarity costs and amortized over time.
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post #23 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-31-2020, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by MPG+ View Post
Just because they're faster, doesn't mean it will be a cheaper charge. Your Clarity battery will take a certain amount of kWh to fully charge, and whether they get there fast or slow, the $/kWh is not going to change. If you're on city water, is it cheaper if it comes out faster? The only thing affecting charging cost is the rate and if your utility offers cheaper rates at certain times of the day. If you go with a Level 2 charger, the costs for purchase of equipment and installation (which could be $1000s) should be added to your Clarity costs and amortized over time.
For most people level 2 will likely be cheaper for several reasons, but it certainly depends on the individual situation whether the savings will ever pay back the cost of upgrading to level 2 which includes the cost of the EVSE and the cost of installing a 240V outlet. Your example of $1,000 for the upgrade is certainly possible but for many people it seems to be closer to half that, especially if any rebates are available, and when they can get a 240V outlet installed for a reasonable price and not get gouged. I have heard it's better to not tell the installer that it's for an electric car because inexplicably the quote goes much higher. People who just say I need a 240V outlet installed and don't say what it will be used for seem to get lower quotes. Go figure. Of course installation cost also depends on the length of the run from the panel to the new outlet location, accessibility for running the wires, whether the panel needs to be upgraded, etc. all of which can certainly drive costs higher, but for many people the upgrade is relatively easy.

Also with the Clarity you only need to buy an inexpensive (approx $200) 16 amp level 2 EVSE which will do a full charge in about four hours. Clarity will charge in about two hours at 32 amp however the additional cost for the higher power EVSE is not really worth it for most people since they would rarely benefit from the additional charging speed of 32 amp over 16 amp.

As for the savings, the water example doesn't really apply because charging at 240V is more efficient than 120V, but from what I have heard the difference is somewhat small so by itself it would likely not be enough to ever pay back the expense of upgrading to level 2. But it would help a little bit.

Also many people drive enough miles each day to fully use their EV range and then some, and since for most people depending on the state they live in electric miles are cheaper than gas miles, the more they can charge the more money they save. The Clarity OEM cable at 120V takes about thirteen hours for a full charge, and sometimes you don't always have that much time, like if you get home late and have to leave early the next morning. Or someone who typically arrives home from work with 0 EV range but will be driving somewhere that evening so they can only charge for an hour or two, that might not be enough time to put in all the electricity they need for that evening's driving. Again this is very individual both on driving patterns and also local cost for electricity and gasoline, but for many people the savings can add up if they can do more charging with level 2 than they could with level 1.

The bigger savings for the OP is because they have a TOU (time of use plan) with a much lower rate in the middle of the night. I have a similar plan where I get half off the normal rate, but the hours are limited from 11:00 pm to 7:00 am. When my battery is near empty that is not enough time to fully charge, which requires an additional five hours at a rate that is twice as high as my overnight rate. Although I don't need to fully charge most days so I am not as affected by this as others would be who do a lot of EV miles each day.

For many people, even after factoring all of this in it likely will not fully pay back the cost of upgrading to Level 2. But there is also a convenience factor to be considered. Preconditioning for example works much better with level 2 than with level 1. With level 1 you cannot run climate and charge at the same time like you can with level 2. Also most owners simply prefer driving EV over HV, and if level 2 enables more EV driving, then that is worth it to them as it helps them enjoy driving their Clarity more, even if there is not an overall net savings. However for others, depending on their individual situation, they may decide that it's not worth it to upgrade to level 2.

That's one of the huge advantages of PHEV over EV that is not always mentioned, that Level 2 is optional for a PHEV, whereas for many people who have an EV level 2 is required if they want to avoid using external charging stations. The question that I am asked most often about my Clarity is if I can plug it into a regular wall outlet. I can simply answer yes, whereas an EV owner will likely have to give a longer answer to that question, explaining that yes they can but that for their situation they needed something faster at home and so they installed a 240V outlet.
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post #24 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-31-2020, 11:37 PM
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Another way to save money when installing a Level 2 EVSE is to buy a hard-wired unit: Saves the expense of adding a receptacle and the units, themselves, are often a bit less expensive. People often tout the flexibility offered by plug-in units - but I wonder if they actually travel with them or if they only worry about leaving them behind if the house is sold...
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post #25 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-01-2020, 01:55 AM
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Another way to save money when installing a Level 2 EVSE is to buy a hard-wired unit: Saves the expense of adding a receptacle and the units, themselves, are often a bit less expensive. People often tout the flexibility offered by plug-in units - but I wonder if they actually travel with them or if they only worry about leaving them behind if the house is sold...
Higher priced EVSE's sometimes have hardwired models for say $50 less than the mobile version, but most low priced EVSE's only come in mobile version. Also many people have reported that electricians charge more to hook up a hardwired EVSE than installing an outlet, even though hooking up an EVSE is easier. Maybe some electricians are intimidated by it because they aren't familiar with them, or they are worried that if there is a problem with the EVSE the owner will be calling them since it's not as easy to troubleshoot a hardwired EVSE. Or else some electricians just like to gouge people with higher prices when it's for an EV, which as I mentioned before people have reported even when getting just an outlet installed they get higher quotes if they tell the installer the outlet will be used for an EV.

As for portable EVSE's, they are now becoming the most popular, you don't need an electrician if for example you upgrade to a different EVSE, or if your EVSE is defective and needs to be replaced. Of course an electrician is required to install the outlet, but that should only be a one time occurrence as long as you install something halfway future-proofed like say 14-50.
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post #26 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-01-2020, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by 2002 View Post
Higher priced EVSE's sometimes have hardwired models for say $50 less than the mobile version, but most low priced EVSE's only come in mobile version. Also many people have reported that electricians charge more to hook up a hardwired EVSE than installing an outlet, even though hooking up an EVSE is easier. Maybe some electricians are intimidated by it because they aren't familiar with them, or they are worried that if there is a problem with the EVSE the owner will be calling them since it's not as easy to troubleshoot a hardwired EVSE. Or else some electricians just like to gouge people with higher prices when it's for an EV, which as I mentioned before people have reported even when getting just an outlet installed they get higher quotes if they tell the installer the outlet will be used for an EV.

As for portable EVSE's, they are now becoming the most popular, you don't need an electrician if for example you upgrade to a different EVSE, or if your EVSE is defective and needs to be replaced. Of course an electrician is required to install the outlet, but that should only be a one time occurrence as long as you install something halfway future-proofed like say 14-50.
I'd rewired my home a year before installing an EVSE so had the electrician run the cable and spool it in the attic as part of that process. I selected the Siemens Versicharge hard-wired version because it was the least expensive model I could find and because I didn't need it to be wifi-enabled. Running the on-wall conduit and installing the unit cost a total of $220 with the electrician stating that he was surprised how easy it was to do.

Everything seemed to be just fine until a week later when I got the Clarity - and found that the EVSE was faulty (literally, it threw a fault whenever it was plugged into the car). I turned off the breaker, released the three connectors inside the unit, unclipped it from the wall and took it back to Home Depot where they handed me a new unit. Went back home, clipped it to the wall bracket, reconnected the three wires, switched-on the breaker and it's worked like a charm ever since.

Just today Electrify America has launched their home EVSE on Amazon - and, with the discount code, it's $8 less than I paid for the Siemens - but it does require a NEMA 14-50 receptacle. https://www.amazon.com/Electrify-Ame...ef=sr_1_2_sspa

Last edited by Kerbe; 02-01-2020 at 01:15 PM. Reason: typo
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post #27 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-02-2020, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPG+ View Post
Just because they're faster, doesn't mean it will be a cheaper charge. Your Clarity battery will take a certain amount of kWh to fully charge, and whether they get there fast or slow, the $/kWh is not going to change. If you're on city water, is it cheaper if it comes out faster? The only thing affecting charging cost is the rate and if your utility offers cheaper rates at certain times of the day. If you go with a Level 2 charger, the costs for purchase of equipment and installation (which could be $1000s) should be added to your Clarity costs and amortized over time.
Thousands of dollars for a Level 2 evse installation? I paid $250 for a licensed electrician to install a NEMA 14-50 outlet in my garage and $240 for a 32amp Level 2 evse that I purchased off Amazon. I can charge my Clarity in less than 2.5 hours. You can go even cheaper by getting a 240v cord for your OEM Honda evse. It will work fine on 240v and will charge the battery in about 5.5 hours.
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