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30a 125/250v

16K views 37 replies 10 participants last post by  ClarityDave 
#1 ·
Sorry if this has been asked and answered already. However, I could not find anything answering this specific question.

I have in my garage a 30a 125/250v outlet near my dryer, the 3 prong y shaped one. Would a basic level 2 charger from Amazon work? I was looking at a zencar portable level 2 charger 16a 240v. Would a 32a work as well? Also if anyone could recommend a plug in level 2 theyve had experience with. Thanks
 
#2 ·
Yes, a L2 charger from Zencar will work fine with your dryer outlet.

There are 2 ways to get the Zencar EVSE to plug in:
1. Have an electrician change out the dryer outlet to a NEMA 6-50 or 5-20 which are compatible with the Zencar plug.
2. Go to your hardware / electrical store to find an adapter dongle that converts the dryer plug to a 5-20R.
 
#3 ·
Not sure if you mean a 10-30R outlet? If so on Amazon there is a Mustart 26 amp for a reasonable price with a 10-30 plug. It's not the most common brand but I have heard of people who use and like it. Has a nice LCD display showing voltage etc. 26 amp is more than enough for Clarity.
 
#5 ·
That's pretty much what they say on them, no reason why it shouldn't work. That being said 10-30 is the older 3-prong style that hasn't been installed in homes for over twenty-five years, that doesn't make it unsafe by any means to use but being that old and apparently never used, if you have any doubts you can always have an electrician check it out and make sure that the outlet and wiring is in good condition. But assuming the outlet is in good working order it should be absolutely fine for charging, and would be a lot cheaper than switching to a different type of outlet.

However if you use the 10-30 outlet it's best to use an EVSE that comes with that sized plug. It's best to avoid using adapters to mate EVSE's to different sized plugs. Some people do it but it's better to get an EVSE to match the existing outlet, or else change the outlet to match the EVSE. The former method is usually much cheaper than the latter. Especially for Clarity which really needs very little power, even 16 amp Level 2 is plenty for Clarity.
 
#6 ·
For continuous loads (like your car charging), the load should only be ~80% of the circuit protection device capacity, so you need a 40a breaker for a 32a continuous load. I'd avoid using a 32A unless you had the circuit breaker changed to a 40a, the wiring checked to ensure it meets the required wire gauge per NEC 240.4(B), and probably the outlet changed. You should be fine with a common 16a charger, or with a [more unusual] 24a charger.
 
#7 ·
Interesting that Mustart's 10-30 is 26 amp, they claim 15% margin is okay. Don't know why they didn't just make it 24 amp so that it follows accepted guidelines and there wouldn't be any question about it.

I didn't realize Zencar does have a model with a 10-30 plug, it's 16 amp which again is plenty for Clarity. Of course some people want to future proof to say 14-50 but that can get a lot more costly not just for the wiring but also for the EVSE.

Even cheaper is to use the Honda OEM cable with an adapter to 240V outlet, a lot of people have done that with no problems other than it maxes out at about 10 amps but still it's twice as fast as Level 1. But it's an individual decision whether to go down that route.
 
#12 ·
I have the Zencar 240V, 16A charger from Amazon plugged into my dryer outlet and it works perfectly for my Clarity PHEV. Highly recommend. Since you already have the outlet, this is a no-brainer. For $200, plug it in and you're good to go. Just make sure you order the one with the correct plug to match your outlet.

Even with the car fully discharged, it will give a full charge in less than 4 hours. From my typical partial charge, it is done in 2.5 to 3 hours. I'm almost always charging overnight, so there's no hurry. It also allows full use of the climate pre-condition from wall power. The Clarity's onboard charger maxes out at 6kW. It will not take more than 25A no matter what you plug in to, so there is little advantage of going to a higher capacity unit.
 
#13 ·
Even with the car fully discharged, it will give a full charge in less than 4 hours. From my typical partial charge, it is done in 2.5 to 3 hours. I'm almost always charging overnight, so there's no hurry. It also allows full use of the climate pre-condition from wall power. The Clarity's onboard charger maxes out at 6kW. It will not take more than 25A no matter what you plug in to, so there is little advantage of going to a higher capacity unit.
The charger in the Clarity is 32A and will draw that at times (if the EVSE indicates at least 32A is available). I typically see 30A while charging, but preconditioning draws 32A before tapering as the car warms.
 
#14 ·
Yes, the home was built in 1980 so I understand it is older. I ended up purchasing a Mustart lvl 2 26amp charger with the proper plug. Our electrician suggested installing a seperate breaker of 50amp without even coming out, so I am not sure if he's being honest. I should get it this Saturday and I'll try it out.
 
#15 ·
So this is getting a little tricky, maybe @DucRider can help with some advice. I'm not an electrician but what they are saying doesn't sound right unless they weren't clear or you didn't fully understand what they are suggesting. I'm sure they weren't suggesting to just pop in a 50 amp breaker on that 10-30 circuit as that would be wrong. Maybe they are suggesting installing a separate subpanel, although without seeing what's on your existing panel that would sound like they might be trying to do an automatic upsell. Or maybe they are suggesting to install a 50 amp circuit and install a 14-50 or 6-50 outlet. But since your Mustart has a 10-30 plug that would require using an adapter, which now introduces a new potential problem. Adapters can be built that are safe, but they will always be a potential point of failure, even worse when cheaply built.

As a general rule a 10 gauge (copper) wire can handle 30 amps of power up to fifty feet. But for continuous power the guideline is to limit to 80% which is 24 amps. The 30 amp circuit breaker that is installed only stops overloads above 30 amps, it does not stop you from using more than 24 amps continuous, it is up to you to avoid doing that. Putting a 26 amp continuous device on the 10-30 amp circuit would be exceeding the standard guideline. If the run is relatively short, and the wiring and outlet are in good condition, maybe someone could argue that Mustart's claim of 85% continuous is okay. At a minimum if you try it out you should use an infrared thermometer to check the temperature at all points especially after several hours of use. But to stay within the guideline, I am wondering if what is needed is to simply upgrade the wire to 8 ga and change nothing else, assuming the outlet and circuit breaker that you have will accept 8 ga wire. The circuit breaker in this case will be overly protective at 30 amp, but that in itself shouldn't be a problem since you would be running just 26 amp on it.

Or return the Mustart if it isn't too late and get a Zencar 16 amp.
 
#18 ·
A 26A EVSE would require a circuit rated at 40A, but it has a plug rated at 30A. You cannot install a combination of breaker/outlet that would meet code for this device.

The electrician is suggesting a new circuit, which is becoming sort of the the EVSE standard (likely suggesting 50A to "future proof" it). In all fairness, the added cost for the heavier wire is likely to add very little to the overall cost. I see Amazon has 32A versions of the Mustart for the same (or lower) price. If you have a new circuit installed, might as well match the EVSE to the cars capabilities.

And yes, any 240V EVSE will allow the car the precondition while charging, but anything less than a 32A version is likely to use some of your battery range (mine draws 32A when preconditioning starts, and if you are supplying less than that the battery will probably be used to make up the deficit). I understand you can even precondition on 120V once charging is complete, but that is likely also at the expense of EV range.
 
#19 · (Edited)
Code is an interesting topic. There are codes obviously for the installation of wiring and circuits. And there are codes (I assume) for hardwiring devices into the home's electrical system. But to my knowledge there are not building codes related to what you can plug into an outlet, or am I wrong about that? Are there codes that say you cannot plug more devices into a circuit that exceeds the circuit capacity? I wouldn't think so, I can have three space heaters plugged in on the same circuit as long as I only use one at a time, and not violate code as far as I know. In fact even turning them all on at the same time, while dumb, does not violate building code as far as a I know. To be sure I am not an expert on national or local electrical codes, I'm just saying code seems to be focused on installations, not what appliances are plugged into outlets, for that we have safety guidelines. But if you have examples otherwise then I will stand corrected.

To make it clear I am absolutely NOT advocating unsafe practices I am only questioning what is legal and what is simply good judgement. If my presumption is correct about what is code and what is guideline, it comes down to homeowners using good judgement when plugging things into outlets. I mentioned not using adapters, again no code violation that I know of but in my opinion that is something to be avoided just for safety. In the OP's current situation, it is contrary to accepted safety guidelines to continuously use 26 amps on a 30 amp circuit, even if that circuit is dedicated, and even if no codes are being violated.

It seems to me that switching to 8 ga wire would satisfy the spirit even if not the letter of the guideline. Or is the spirit of the 80% guideline not just about the wiring but also about the outlet and the circuit breaker? I.e. is it not safe to run more than 80% capacity through the outlet and circuit breaker even if the wiring can handle it? If that is a concern, or is an unknown, then yes there is no way to make the current situation fully safe, and a new EVSE will be required. In that case the lowest cost solution would seem to be simply getting a different low cost EVSE that works with the existing 10-30 outlet. Changing the outlet to something else would be an unnecessary cost and would still not eliminate having to get a new EVSE.

To summarize more simply in case I wasn't able to be clear in my above conjectures:

Option 1 - use existing 26 amp EVSE on 10-30 circuit. Might be safe, might not be. Might not violate any codes but goes against accepted guidelines, thus without expert determination it should be assumed to be not safe.

Option 2 - use existing 26 amp EVSE on 10-30 circuit after upgrading wire from 10 ga to 8 ga. Should be safer than option 1, but unless the 80% guideline is fully understood it still may not be fully safe. And due to the cost of new wire (depending on length) and electricians time it likely would be no cheaper than simply getting a different EVSE (option 3). But it still might be a preferred solution if the OP likes the features of the existing EVSE and doesn't want to get a different one.

Option 3 - Replace the 26 amp 10-30 EVSE with a 16 amp 10-30 EVSE (or 24 amp if available). Lowest cost solution that does not have safety questions. No electrician needed.

Option 4 - Upgrade circuit to 40 or 50 amp and get new EVSE that has the matching plug. Would be safe but much more costly than option 3 since professional installation is required. Little or no advantage to Clarity, just some potential future proofing.
 
#31 ·
Even cheaper is to use the Honda OEM cable with an adapter to 240V outlet, a lot of people have done that with no problems other than it maxes out at about 10 amps but still it's twice as fast as Level 1. But it's an individual decision whether to go down that route.[/QUOTE]

Is this something that can be done? Is there a discussion thread or a paper of some sort on how it should be done? I have 240 in my garage and could run a line to the right place.
 
#32 ·
"Even cheaper is to use the Honda OEM cable with an adapter to 240V outlet, a lot of people have done that with no problems other than it maxes out at about 10 amps but still it's twice as fast as Level 1. But it's an individual decision whether to go down that route."

Is this something that can be done? Is there a discussion thread or a paper of some sort on how it should be done? I have 240 in my garage and could run a line to the right place.
Below is a link to the original thread on this topic. Probably take a while to read the entire thread, but it does have point-counterpoint discussions about it. The only overheating problems that people were having was with adapters that people were getting from eBay and Amazon not the Honda cable itself, so there was an opinion that a home made adapter using quality parts was better than buying some unknown adapter. The person who started the thread Rob43 started making adapters for people who were not comfortable making their own, somewhere in the fourteen pages of posts I think he gives his contact info.

https://www.clarityforum.com/forum/...81-level-2-charging-$20-dollars.html#post3741
 
#33 ·
Wow. I just finished reading the full thread. Rob's idea is great but I will go on with my existing 120 for now. It got pretty heated there. Personally, i am on the side of a 20 amp breaker to protect the weak OEM link in the series. Thanks for the Link to the thread 2002.
 
#34 ·
I am still using 120 because economically for a PHEV it makes the most sense, i.e. not nearly enough savings to offset the investment in 240V. Most days the car is home long enough to charge all that I need. Occasionally not and I only have time to charge to 80% or whatever, but that just means I burn a few more miles of gas on those days. Not enough though to justify spending hundreds of dollars to install a 240V outlet. If I had an EV then sure I would absolutely be getting 240V, and that's the rationale some people have that they are future proofing for an EV, which is fine but I'm not going to spend the money just in case I buy an EV while I am still living in this house. On the other hand there is a federal tax credit right now for installing 240V and no guarantee that the credit will still be available when and if I get an EV. Then again the state that I live in used to have a tax credit for 240V installs, they currently don't, but they may bring it back. Too many variables and unknowns to predict if I would save money by getting 240V now, and all depending on whether I get an EV while I am living here. Personally for me a PHEV works out just right so I have no current plans to go full EV, but that may change, again depending on what happens in the future.

One other nicety about 240V is that you can run remote climate (or scheduled climate which is similar) while charging, whereas with 120V you cannot charge and run climate at the same time. But my car is in an attached garage so the temperature never gets too extreme, so I never do that anyway. I only use remote climate away from the house.
 
#35 ·
I did the adapter cable for the Honda charger with a high quality 120v 20A female plug.

All works well and it charges to full in 5-6 hours overnight on reduced night time rate.

I am going to adapt a wifi local charge control to stop using the Honda app for the scheduling as it is a bit slow through the 3G. Not really a big issue but I will get instant response for any changes in scheduling.

In addition I will install a watt hour meter to keep track of the monthly average use, again just an added monitoring ability.
 
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