GM & Tesla: President Trump intervened to quash an EV tax credit expansion - 2018 Honda Clarity Forum
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-09-2020, 10:26 AM Thread Starter
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GM & Tesla: President Trump intervened to quash an EV tax credit expansion

This is recent news of an attempt to extend Tesla and GM - above 200,000 cars for EV credit was squashed by Trump:
https://www.ecowatch.com/electric-ca...641647250.html

Really doesn't affect any other brands and Honda is way far away from reaching the 200,000 EV car production number...
Honda has only about 11,000 cars that they have produced for the US market so that means Honda needs to make about 190,000 more EV cars to reach the maximum before the tax credit runs out....
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-09-2020, 11:12 AM
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Tesla sold over 100,000 cars in 2019 Q4. The loss of this credit isn't hurting them.

What I would love to see is the Federal credit eliminated for any CARB compliance vehicle - in other words a car that isn't available for sale and service in all 50 states (barring state law blocking sale). For those of us who don't live in a CARB state our options are very, very limited. Tesla, Nissan Leaf, and the Chevy Bolt are the only BEVs sold nationwide and the Prius Prime is the only PHEV sold nationwide. If a state wants to do something internal to their border, then go for it, but the Federal credit should apply for everyone regardless of where they live.

I've attached the top 20 sales numbers for 2019 (source: https://insideevs.com/news/343998/mo...les-scorecard/). The top 6 are all nationwide sales, with the M3 outselling all others combined.

Tesla Model 3* �� 158,925
Toyota Prius Prime* 15,705
Tesla Model X* �� 19,225
Chevrolet Bolt EV* �� 16,418
Nissan LEAF �� 12,365
Tesla Model S* �� 14,100
Honda Clarity PHEV* 10,728
Ford Fusion Energi* 5,646
BMW i3 (BEV �� + REx) 4,854
BMW 530e* 4,637
Audi e-tron �� 5,369
Volkswagen e-Golf �� 4,863
Chevrolet Volt* 4,910
Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid* 3,731
Kia Niro PHEV* 2,939
Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV 2,810
Jaguar I-Pace �� 2,594
Mercedes GLC 350e* 1,750
Mercedes C350e* 1,593
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2018 Honda Clarity Touring PHEV - Forest Green w/Tan interior (wife's car)
2017 Volt LT - Heather Gray; black bow ties, Charcoal VoltShelf
2012 Cruze ECO MT (hail totaled 5/8/17 103,600 miles @42.5 MPG)
2010 Mit Lancer GT MT (traded for ECO @31K miles)
2002 Pont Montana AWD - title to son at college graduation
1990 Pont Transport (traded for Montana @240K miles)
1986 Fiero GT MT (traded for Transport - needed more seats)
1985 Fiero 2M4 MT (traded for Fiero GT @8K miles)
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-09-2020, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4sallypat View Post
This is recent news of an attempt to extend Tesla and GM - above 200,000 cars for EV credit was squashed by Trump:
https://www.ecowatch.com/electric-ca...641647250.html

Really doesn't affect any other brands and Honda is way far away from reaching the 200,000 EV car production number...
Honda has only about 11,000 cars that they have produced for the US market so that means Honda needs to make about 190,000 more EV cars to reach the maximum before the tax credit runs out....
The number of Clarities sold or leased in the U.S. is triple that. And toss in about a thousand Fit EV. So about 34,000 EV and PHEV. But yes still a long ways to go before Honda reaches 200,000, especially since they have substantially pulled back from the electric market for the time being.
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-10-2020, 02:31 PM
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Just an FYI, the Tesla Model 3 was the best selling "luxury" sedan in the US in 2019 Q3. During the same quarter, it was the number 6 seller overall for sedans. The fact that no one else is able to produce an EV that sells nearly as well says a lot more about Tesla's competition than it does about American attitudes towards EVs. Produce a car that people want to drive and it'll sell. EVs cut into profits for auto makers, their dealership network, and even the unions (fewer workers needed => less dues coming in), so traditional auto makers have no incentive to produce good EVs.

2018 Honda Clarity Touring PHEV - Forest Green w/Tan interior (wife's car)
2017 Volt LT - Heather Gray; black bow ties, Charcoal VoltShelf
2012 Cruze ECO MT (hail totaled 5/8/17 103,600 miles @42.5 MPG)
2010 Mit Lancer GT MT (traded for ECO @31K miles)
2002 Pont Montana AWD - title to son at college graduation
1990 Pont Transport (traded for Montana @240K miles)
1986 Fiero GT MT (traded for Transport - needed more seats)
1985 Fiero 2M4 MT (traded for Fiero GT @8K miles)
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-10-2020, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obermd View Post
Tesla sold over 100,000 cars in 2019 Q4. The loss of this credit isn't hurting them.

What I would love to see is the Federal credit eliminated for any CARB compliance vehicle - in other words a car that isn't available for sale and service in all 50 states (barring state law blocking sale). For those of us who don't live in a CARB state our options are very, very limited. Tesla, Nissan Leaf, and the Chevy Bolt are the only BEVs sold nationwide and the Prius Prime is the only PHEV sold nationwide. If a state wants to do something internal to their border, then go for it, but the Federal credit should apply for everyone regardless of where they live.

I've attached the top 20 sales numbers for 2019 (source: https://insideevs.com/news/343998/mo...les-scorecard/). The top 6 are all nationwide sales, with the M3 outselling all others combined.

Tesla Model 3* �� 158,925
Toyota Prius Prime* 15,705
Tesla Model X* �� 19,225
Chevrolet Bolt EV* �� 16,418
Nissan LEAF �� 12,365
Tesla Model S* �� 14,100
Honda Clarity PHEV* 10,728
Ford Fusion Energi* 5,646
BMW i3 (BEV �� + REx) 4,854
BMW 530e* 4,637
Audi e-tron �� 5,369
Volkswagen e-Golf �� 4,863
Chevrolet Volt* 4,910
Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid* 3,731
Kia Niro PHEV* 2,939
Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV 2,810
Jaguar I-Pace �� 2,594
Mercedes GLC 350e* 1,750
Mercedes C350e* 1,593
You missed a PHEV that is available nationwide. Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid. Unlike the Prius Prime, the Pacifica Hybrid qualifies for the full $7500 Federal Tax credit.
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-11-2020, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mowcowbell View Post
You missed a PHEV that is available nationwide. Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid. Unlike the Prius Prime, the Pacifica Hybrid qualifies for the full $7500 Federal Tax credit.
I didn't even realize it was still available. The 2019 sales numbers for it are even lower than those of the discontinued Volt.

The Prius Prime is a CARB compliance vehicle even though it's sold across the country. Toyota boosted the battery size just enough in 2017 (no change since then) to comply with the new CARB requirements. The 2016 battery was too small.

2018 Honda Clarity Touring PHEV - Forest Green w/Tan interior (wife's car)
2017 Volt LT - Heather Gray; black bow ties, Charcoal VoltShelf
2012 Cruze ECO MT (hail totaled 5/8/17 103,600 miles @42.5 MPG)
2010 Mit Lancer GT MT (traded for ECO @31K miles)
2002 Pont Montana AWD - title to son at college graduation
1990 Pont Transport (traded for Montana @240K miles)
1986 Fiero GT MT (traded for Transport - needed more seats)
1985 Fiero 2M4 MT (traded for Fiero GT @8K miles)
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-11-2020, 07:47 PM
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I didn't even realize it was still available. The 2019 sales numbers for it are even lower than those of the discontinued Volt.

The Prius Prime is a CARB compliance vehicle even though it's sold across the country. Toyota boosted the battery size just enough in 2017 (no change since then) to comply with the new CARB requirements. The 2016 battery was too small.
You are thinking of the Prius Plug-in which was sold only from 2012-2015 in selected states and which had a 4.4 kWh battery. Prius Prime debuted in 2017 with a 8.8 kWh battery.

I agree Prius Prime is a compliance car as like Honda they do not seem to be fully committed to selling nationwide. Here in Georgia when I was considering a Prime in 2017 and 2018 the only factory incentives available were on the east coast and California. In Georgia they were rarely seen at dealers, my local dealer had one for sale at over MSRP with a whole bunch of dealer add ons. I have seen about an equal number of Prius Prime on the road here in Georgia as Clarity. Actually I think I have seen maybe three or four Prime as compared to about seven Clarity just going from my recollection.
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-12-2020, 11:03 AM Thread Starter
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Interesting that states other than CA is not popular even for a widely available PHEV like the Prius Prime.

Is it due to fuel prices being so low ?

Here in CA, the Prius Prime PHEV is super popular and outnumbers the Clarity because they also get the coveted HOV carpool stickers.....
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-12-2020, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4sallypat View Post
Interesting that states other than CA is not popular even for a widely available PHEV like the Prius Prime.

Is it due to fuel prices being so low ?

Here in CA, the Prius Prime PHEV is super popular and outnumbers the Clarity because they also get the coveted HOV carpool stickers.....
Low fuel prices are a big factor. When gas was over $4 a gallon back in 2012 and 2013, the Chevy Cruze was the best selling car in America for a couple of months. It got better fuel economy than just about any other gas powered vehicle on the road, including the Toyota Camry.

I'm surprised the Clarity doesn't get California HOV stickers. The Volt did and the Clarity is the only other PHEV even close to the Volt for battery range.

2018 Honda Clarity Touring PHEV - Forest Green w/Tan interior (wife's car)
2017 Volt LT - Heather Gray; black bow ties, Charcoal VoltShelf
2012 Cruze ECO MT (hail totaled 5/8/17 103,600 miles @42.5 MPG)
2010 Mit Lancer GT MT (traded for ECO @31K miles)
2002 Pont Montana AWD - title to son at college graduation
1990 Pont Transport (traded for Montana @240K miles)
1986 Fiero GT MT (traded for Transport - needed more seats)
1985 Fiero 2M4 MT (traded for Fiero GT @8K miles)
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-12-2020, 03:08 PM
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The PHEV Clarity does qualify for the CA HOV sticker even after the rules change last month.
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