Was the battery ever charged while sitting on the lot? - Page 2 - 2018 Honda Clarity Forum
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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-14-2019, 08:01 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 2002 View Post
As I mentioned before it's not really a test, the battery capacity is a stored value in the system and they hook up their computer diagnostic system to get the value. They will see the battery capacity number on the same screen as a bunch of other diagnostic information, they could simply note that it's above 36.6 Ah and tell you that it passed, or write down the value and tell you what it was, or print the page of items that has the battery capacity value, or print all five pages or whatever of the entire diagnostics and hand that to you which is probably what they did in the thread you are referring to.
2002, When you say "stored value", do you mean that the car itself is figuring how much capacity it has at the time? What about the Voltage outputs, same for them? Ok, if the AH figure and voltage stored values are accurate then they would be valid data to calculate KWH's?
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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-14-2019, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Sailorman View Post
2002, When you say "stored value", do you mean that the car itself is figuring how much capacity it has at the time? What about the Voltage outputs, same for them? Ok, if the AH figure and voltage stored values are accurate then they would be valid data to calculate KWH's?
Most of the electronics systems are self-diagnosing and the car stores the data. Diagnostic scans to read the stored data are typically run before and after repairs especially collision repairs to ensure that all of the electronics are operating correctly. Some of the data such as voltage and temperature is live data at the time of the scan. I am not aware of anyone being able to determine kWh capacity by viewing the diagnostic data, other than the stored, precalculated battery capacity value. It is not known how that number is calculated by the onboard diagnostic system, we just know that everyone who has the test done reports above 50 Ah up to about 55 Ah. The only number stated by Honda is the warranty limit which is 36.6 Ah. So the only real value of the number is in comparison, either comparing to other cars, or comparing values for the same car over time, like if you obtained the stored value every few years to see if the number is declining, and whether it is getting anywhere close to the 36.6 Ah warranty value. Since all Clarity PHEV's are no more than two years old and most are not at any type of high mileage yet we don't have a lot of data or information yet on battery degradation. Many (not all) owners get the capacity test done either at delivery or within the first few months of ownership. In the coming years I'm sure we we start to get reports from people who can tell us how the number for their car changed after two years, five years, etc. Of course what also is a factor is EV miles driven, discharge cycles etc. but most people are not able to track that very easily so all we really have as a standard measuring tool is years of ownership and total miles driven.
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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-14-2019, 10:21 PM Thread Starter
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2002, Thanks much, that explanation helps allot.

I am planning on keeping the Clarity until I am in my final resting place. Each year I will have a capacity test done at servicing, so in 2029 I will have a pretty good idea of how much battery I will have left in 2039, when I will be 85 !! Though of course I have no idea what my sell by date is, let alone my expiration date!!

That sounds much better to me that it is the internal diagnostics keeping track and giving the Amp Hours instead of an external machine that may change from year to year.
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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-14-2019, 11:23 PM Thread Starter
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2002, I have permission from a contributor over on the Insideevs forum to post the following, it has some information that helps complete the picture for me as to what is going on:

The nominal cell voltage is 3.7. There are 84 cells wired in series. There are 2, 84 cell batteries wired in parallel. This makes the nominal voltage 311.

311v x 55.1aH = 17.1kWh.

The batteries were below the nominal voltage. 293v/84 cells = 3.5v
293v x 55.1aH = 16.1kWh

The targeted charging voltage is just under 4.1v. 4.1 x 55.1 = 18.9kWh.

The kWh number will fluctuate with the voltage. The aH number is what wed like to see remain consistent over time. It can be measured by performing a timed load test.

Ive seen the Panasonic made, Clarity battery rated at both 27aH and 28aH. Multiply that by 2 batteries in parallel and we get 54-56aH.
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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-15-2019, 02:21 AM
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I gave my salesperson a list of items I wanted checked - based on information gathered on this forum - and he turned it over to the Service Manager who assured him that everything was taken care of. Of course, none of it was and the salesperson ended-up looking like a fool.

Yup - my body plugs were in a plastic bag in the sub-trunk - I didn't find them until I got home and installed them myself. Called the salesperson and told him I was VERY concerned that nothing on the list had been done (software updates, capacity test, etc.) An hour later the GM called to make an appointment for me to return for a full diagnostic and updates. As the dealership was 135 miles away I needed to wait until I could take another day off to do this but, at the end of the visit, I was handed a six-page print-out of the computer diagnostic and a list of all the updates they'd applied.

While shopping I made appointments to visit three Honda dealerships, specifically asking that the car be fully charged when I arrived. One of the three did charge the car I was going to test-drive - another charged the Clarity that was up on a display platform, but the tester had a fully depleted battery. The dealership from which I eventually purchased didn't bother to charge the tester, either, but the car was the color and model I wanted...

It wasn't just Honda - on a trip up the east coast I arranged to test-drive a Kia Niro PHEV in Maryland and requested that it be fully charged. When I arrived at the dealership the salesman was proud to show me that he'd connected a trickle charger to the 12V battery - not realizing that the PHEV was different from the standard hybrid...
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post #16 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-15-2019, 08:39 AM
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Wish I had Read this in May! Went to dealer near Toronto Ontario to test drive Clarity, Once on the road at a red light I said, sounds like the motor is running.(oh no thats the big truck beside us) Look at Battery gauge and its at empty!O!
Date arranged to pick up new car(Not that one) and had to wait quite a while for car to come around from shop. all shinny etc../ Get in car to go... Battery gauge...O!
They offered to Give us $ for dinner while they charge it... Declined! Drove home 1 hr on gas.
Can't recommend that dealer ever!
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post #17 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-15-2019, 08:43 PM Thread Starter
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Hi Kerbe and Snowbird,

I am a student (sort of, well, maybe a little bit) of History, and Technology, in fact before the internet I read through a 3 volume set titled: The History of Technology and Invention by Maurice Dumas.

I have always been puzzled by the Auto Manufacture / Dealership relationship. Especially Toyota, who builds these almost perfect machines. (as far as reliability) An absolutely incredible company, and then they have the worst dealerships (not Lexus though) I researched this a few years ago, and understand a bit why.

I wonder if the Tesla model will prevail in the long run, though would take the fun out the purchase process, offer, counter offer, this is my last and final offer.................
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post #18 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-17-2019, 12:43 PM
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For those concerned with the technical details as posted above, it should also be noted that the Ah (and therefore kWh) available will vary with temperature and discharge rate - it is not a constant.
Higher discharge rates will result in not only draining the battery faster, but also cause a reduction in the total amount of energy available from the battery.
Low or high temperatures will also impact overall capacity (most are rated at about 70 degrees F). This is one of the factors that contributes to lower EV range in cold weather. As an illustration of this principal, we took our Clarity Electric to a company Holiday party a couple of week ago. Had to circle quite a bit to find nearby parking on a 40 degree rainy night. Parked with a little over 50% showing on the battery gauge. Returned a few hours later for the trip home, and the battery gauge was below 50% after cold soaking for several hours. We were also wet from walking in the rain, so had to use the defrost almost continuously, so was a bit tight getting home (pulled in with 4 miles remaining). Monitored the Guess-o-meter and dropped speed from 60 to 55 to maintain that 4 mile buffer. App showed 5% capacity remaining when I initiated the charge. Car started warning about a low charge, but never went into power reduced (turtle) mode.
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2018 Clarity Electric (Vortex Blue)
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