Impact of daily, complete battery depletion - 2018 Honda Clarity Forum
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-18-2018, 07:06 AM Thread Starter
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Impact of daily, complete battery depletion

Hello! I hope to be a 2018 Clarity PHEV owner soon because I will have a new 110 mile round trip commute in a month. Based on this I expect to hit 35,000 miles per year (mostly highway) and expect to deplete the battery pack every single work day.


What kind of battery health/life impact will this have? I know there is a 100k mile battery & hybrid warranty period but I expect to hit that in just under three years. Also, what do you all think about it making it to 200k miles and beyond on the original battery with this usage?
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-18-2018, 10:43 AM
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Hello Ishwa, happy to hear that you are considering a new Clarity. One of the biggest factors that contributes to battery degradation is constant rapid/quick charging. From what it sounds like you'll mostly be charging at home so that shouldn't be an issue. Most EV's do see an initial drop off in range, but that very much levels out over the first few years.
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-19-2018, 11:29 AM
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Daily complete depletion

Welcome, and your questions are valid especially considering your primary use of the car. Prior to my Clarity, I've owned two Lexus Hybrids. The 1st was my RX 450h and a Lexus CT Fsport. I also have the 1st year production of the Segway i2 which is the 2nd generation I bought new in 2005 so a little experience in powerful batteries. I did research as to the best ways to use and care for them to obtain long life cycles. In the Lexus Hybrid's, the battery technology was nickel cadium vs the type our cars and my Segway have. The biggest difference in the two is the nickel cadium batteries are designed to be quick charging with powerful surges and quick depletion making them great for the general 'Hybrid' use. Our type is designed to deplete slower while still giving maximum power but takes longer to recharge. Battery technology has come a long way especially in just this century. Some of the NY Taxies are Lexus and Toyota hybrids with over 200,000 miles and still using the original batteries.

All that being said, consider 'X' as a finite number of 'complete' recharge cycles (from fully charged down to safe discharged level). Research has taught me that it will extend the amount of time (years and/or miles) your battery is useful if you can prevent 'full discharges' by keeping a charging cycle going while using at the same time (as hybrid setups do) rather than systematically draining to near empty before re-charging back to full. If I were in your situation, I'd just try to stay in HV (Hybrid Vehicle) mode as much as possible and still get between 40 and 50 MPG. If you do that, you likely will not get to test Honda's great battery warranty and have it for quite awhile. Tesla's have been getting great reviews but you drive tethered in an accessible charging station infrastructure.

Thought for the day; did you know the Clarity Touring's NAV system will show the Level II charging stations on your route?

FWI; my Segway's batteries are still original and giving me nearly the same range as when they were new. When I'm not riding it, it's in the house plugged in 24/7. I can still get nearly 20 miles off a charge. I don't know anyone else that cares for their Segway batteries that way, and I don't know anyone else that has that kind of life cycle on them.

PHEV vehicles are still sort of a novelty but more manufacturers every year are showcasing new models in growing numbers. Honda has committed to 70% of their car production being PHEV by 2030. For planning purposes that's a pretty serious commitment. For 2019, they added a new model already, the Insight.
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Originally Posted by Ishwa View Post
Hello! I hope to be a 2018 Clarity PHEV owner soon because I will have a new 110 mile round trip commute in a month. Based on this I expect to hit 35,000 miles per year (mostly highway) and expect to deplete the battery pack every single work day.


What kind of battery health/life impact will this have? I know there is a 100k mile battery & hybrid warranty period but I expect to hit that in just under three years. Also, what do you all think about it making it to 200k miles and beyond on the original battery with this usage?
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Jim Myers
2018 Clarity
White Touring
Windows tinted rear doors, rear quarter glass, & back window

Last edited by Cruiter; 11-19-2018 at 11:34 AM.
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-21-2018, 09:23 AM
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All that being said, consider 'X' as a finite number of 'complete' recharge cycles (from fully charged down to safe discharged level). Research has taught me that it will extend the amount of time (years and/or miles) your battery is useful if you can prevent 'full discharges' by keeping a charging cycle going while using at the same time (as hybrid setups do) rather than systematically draining to near empty before re-charging back to full. If I were in your situation, I'd just try to stay in HV (Hybrid Vehicle) mode as much as possible and still get between 40 and 50 MPG.

This is seriously great info, I hope more people read it. I fully drain my battery each day due to an 80 mile round trip where I combine EV and HV use. Perhaps I will incorporate more HV Charge to prevent the battery from depleting.
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-21-2018, 11:57 AM
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Thank you for the nice comment.
Every person's daily driving activity will be different so must be tailored to their use. If you drive roughly 40 miles each way daily and start with a full charge from overnight, you may be best by starting your drive in just HV mode. That will maintain most of the charge you start the day with.
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Originally Posted by longfam18 View Post
This is seriously great info, I hope more people read it. I fully drain my battery each day due to an 80 mile round trip where I combine EV and HV use. Perhaps I will incorporate more HV Charge to prevent the battery from depleting.

Jim Myers
2018 Clarity
White Touring
Windows tinted rear doors, rear quarter glass, & back window
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-24-2018, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Ishwa View Post
Hello! I hope to be a 2018 Clarity PHEV owner soon because I will have a new 110 mile round trip commute in a month. Based on this I expect to hit 35,000 miles per year (mostly highway) and expect to deplete the battery pack every single work day.


What kind of battery health/life impact will this have? I know there is a 100k mile battery & hybrid warranty period but I expect to hit that in just under three years. Also, what do you all think about it making it to 200k miles and beyond on the original battery with this usage?
Nothing to worry about, those Honda engineers thought of everything to the smallest detail. The Clarity was designed NOT to deplete the traction battery and designed NOT to charge to 100% even though battery gauge shows full charge. The engineers were aware that depleting and fully chargiing lithium ion batteries are detrimental to their life cycle. When you have zero miles left on EV the battery gauge will show 2 bars left. But if you are really concerned about this issue I suggest you do as some has suggested and use HV mode for your roundtrip commute. Unless you have a lot of hills and elevation changes or you drive insanely heavy footed you should have 10-15 miles EV left at the end of the day(I'm just guessing) Only way to find out is to give it a try.
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-22-2018, 04:17 PM Thread Starter
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Update:
So I found a free 240V charging station only a 10 minute walk from my job. As a result I’m now driving 54 miles in the morning on mostly EV (a few miles in HV mode), charging during the day, and then driving home almost entirely on electric depending on climate control usage. The car will now see two full discharge cycles every work day. Hopefully it doesn’t kill the battery!

I’m on track to hit 30-35k miles every year, hopefully the relatively young age of my batteries once I hit 100k miles will be beneficial. I thought about traditional hybrids too, but I liked the overall lower cost factoring in the fed and state tax credits. Not to mention near total insulation from gas price increases. We will see how this gamble plans out!

Last edited by Ishwa; 12-22-2018 at 04:25 PM.
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-22-2018, 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by longfam18 View Post
This is seriously great info, I hope more people read it. I fully drain my battery each day due to an 80 mile round trip where I combine EV and HV use. Perhaps I will incorporate more HV Charge to prevent the battery from depleting.
HV charge is the worst power mode to use because it will drop your gas mileage to mid 30's. I have gone more than 80 miles on HV mode and used up only 50% of EV range. But if what you're doing is switching to EV mode when you get within EV range on your homeward commute then that is the proper way of using the power modes in which case you don't need to use HVcharge.
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-26-2018, 10:36 AM
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Interesting post here....Plug in technology and Lithium Ion batteries are not new technologies any more...

They do not charge them up all the way and do not discharge them all the way...

The key thing I learned that I was surprised about was to charge it up right before you use them..that is it takes about 2.5 hours to charge the battery...so, if you are going to work at 7 am, set it to charge at 4 am ....

Jack
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-26-2018, 12:59 PM
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Interesting post from Jack. This is the first time I have heard of this.

My electrical rates go down at 10pm so I charge mine at 10:10pm and if finishes around 12:15am (2 hours later). So it sits fully charged for about 8 hours before I started driving it.

Jack - Are you saying that it would be better if I charged it later so that it only sat for 1 hour fully charged instead of 8 hours? Any estimate on how much is gained by your methodology?
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